[eltonioni]

This lecture is ten years old but it's an interesting watch in light of current events.

TLDR:
1. have the right people in the right place at the right time.
2 get rid of them quickly if they aren't the right people and when situations change.
3. it's not happened since WW2.

(Some might also raise a wry eyebrow at the WW2 start date as discussed )


Any thoughts from our ex services crew? Armchair general's opinions also welcome.

[OCB]

How to win a war - don’t disguise an internal civil/ideological conflict as a war?

For extra points - don’t engage in a land war in Asia…

[akg1486]

Looking at the first two bullet points, that's equally valid in business and in politics. The trick is to recognize when the time is right and when it's not. Coaches in top tier professional football clubs tend to get ousted pretty quickly when things don't go well: perhaps the club owners/boards have taken that advice to heart?

[kanga]

.. The trick is to recognize when the time is right and when it's not. ..

.. and whether the reasons are or are not also right.

Stalin ended up on the 'winning side' in WW2, but many Soviet soldiers (and others) died because he tended to sack (and, often, further punish) Generals whom he had come to dislike or distrust. I've seen comments (in pertinent and, to me, credible) media that UK efforts in both Iraq and Afghanistan may not have been helped by the too frequent changes of local UK commanders, allegedly so as to give as many of the eligible as possible exposure to 'real fighting' In US, ISTR, promotions to and beyond a particular rank ('Brigadier-General', ie 1* or equivalent ?) require Congressional approval, which has led to some of suitable talent not being promoted if they at some point of their career offended someone then or later on Capitol Hill; although, I believe, the President can sack any of them without giving reasons nor facing any procedural challenge.

[johnm]

We heard the phrase Lions Led By Donkeys for a reason and the Donkeys remain in charge in many areas of daily life....Occasionally the Lions eat a set of Donkeys (it's often called revolution) but Donkeys are a remarkably resilient species......

[kanga]

We heard the phrase Lions Led By Donkeys for a reason and the Donkeys remain in charge in many areas of daily life............

.. although that was first coined (many decades later ?)about British forces in WW1, with implications that the ordinary soldiers were brave (and suffered tremendous casualties) - both undeniable - and that the Generals were stupid (and didn't). Both the latter assertions are challengeable: the former is the wisdom of hindsight (the technologies brought to bear were new, and their implications took a long time and costly lessons to learn; but they were learnt, better by the British [Empire] and French commanders than the German and Austrian), and the latter (proportionately) untrue (as recent research has shown).

</military history geek>

I do not presume to comment on its contemporary applicability

[eltonioni]

Of course, a watch of the above lecture shows up that Lions aren't led by Donkeys, but that both the Peter Principle and Parkinson's Law apply. Militaries have always served at the pleasure of governments and their changing policies unless they become the government and we can all agree that never works out well.

Perhaps expecting the military to do more than kill people is simply expecting too much, like when police officers pick up the difficult mental health work that the NHS and social workers have swerved or screwed up.

Am I right in thinking that 2nd Lieutenant was by far the most hazardous soldiering rank in WW1 both in terms of mortality and abuse served up from ranks both above and below?

[kanga]

As a proportion of each rank present in France, among British forces, the highest casualty rate (killed and wounded) was actually General (including 1*, then called Brigadier General still in British forces); according to recent research.

But on the junior officer casualty rate: the UK secondary school with most alumni killed (in both World Wars) was, I believe, Eton College

[kanga]

.. or too imbued with the 'noblesse oblige' ethos, leading from the front ?

Eton alumni also have the most VCs. I believe, most posthumous. 2nd is Cheltenham College.

[johnm]

.. or too imbued with the 'noblesse oblige' ethos, leading from the front ?

Eton alumni also have the most VCs. I believe, most posthumous. 2nd is Cheltenham College.

Hmmmm, I can't help believing that some apparent acts of bravery are too close to acts of stupidity for comfort. That said there are many acts of selflessness in helping others that have cost individuals their lives and that is certainly cause for celebration and respect.

[Bill McCarthy]

It seems that Eisenhower had a fair view on Monty’s abilities.