[MikeE]

I have just spoken to my grandson (18 and very mild mannered) who was in London with two of his friends. He says he has never been so frightened in his life. Young men were swaggering around with knives on open display and he saw one man on the ground with massive wounds to his head. A young girl was being beaten up by some men(!) but he was too afraid to try to intervene, but managed to find a policeman to report it to. He said he was both frightened and ashamed and will never go again.

Regards

Mike

[stevelup]

My son was there with two of his mates. He tells me that the number of people who gained unauthorised entry was massively underreported.

There were hundreds and hundreds of them, totally overwhelming the stewards and there were no police to be seen anywhere at all within the Wembley complex. Absolutely infuriating for the people who spent a small fortune to be there seeing scumbags get in for nothing, and then not ejected.

At the end, of the night it was absolute carnage and they just got away from there as quickly as possible and fortunately without incident.

[Keveng]

snipped

On that subject, I'm always bemused that the people who say they care the least about football have the biggest opinions on what the game should do differently. Maybe they should take it up and change it for the better? Alternatively, they could have a think about what football is in terms of both sport and society. Or maybe just stick to groins.

Any road, the cricket's going well. Any complaints?

[/quote]

I am bemused that you are doing your utmost to normalise the racist and socially deviant side of the support for the game by saying its part and parcel no it isnt and the clubs could do so much more to stamp it out, stopped going to internationals with my son when he was a kid as it wasn't so much a game but a legitimised arena for the knuckle dragging fans to show their true colours.

If you were actually a fan and had pride in the game you would be the one clamouring to do all that was necessary to improve the image and agree to what ever rules are required, so you aren't tarnished with the same brush as those miscreants in Leicester square. Why do you want people who have no interest to fix something for you ??

[JAFO]

@Keveng - the way you've snipped that makes it look like that might be my opinion and not @eltonioni's.

It is most definitely not my opinion.

[akg1486]

My son was there with two of his mates. He tells me that the number of people who gained unauthorised entry was massively underreported.

There were hundreds and hundreds of them, totally overwhelming the stewards and there were no police to be seen anywhere at all within the Wembley complex.

A football reporter who has been to Wembley many times estimated "thousands or perhaps even tens of thousands" more than the 65.000 tickets.

[stevelup]

It’s insane isn’t it?

Whole place should have been locked down and them all dragged out kicking and screaming. But I guess that would have been embarrassing…

These tossers will be emboldened to try similar things again now.

[eltonioni]

@eltonioni [b]- there was snipped

On that subject, I'm always bemused that the people who say they care the least about football have the biggest opinions on what the game should do differently. Maybe they should take it up and change it for the better? Alternatively, they could have a think about what football is in terms of both sport and society. Or maybe just stick to groins.

Any road, the cricket's going well. Any complaints?

I am bemused that you are doing your utmost to normalise the racist and socially deviant side of the support for the game by saying its part and parcel no it isnt and the clubs could do so much more to stamp it out, stopped going to internationals with my son when he was a kid as it wasn't so much a game but a legitimised arena for the knuckle dragging fans to show their true colours.

If you were actually a fan and had pride in the game you would be the one clamouring to do all that was necessary to improve the image and agree to what ever rules are required, so you aren't tarnished with the same brush as those miscreants in Leicester square. Why do you want people who have no interest to fix something for you ??

Don't be so daft, I'm not normalising anything. Show me another major industry in this country where a third of the leaders are black and are literally worshipped by old and young alike. The exceptions are what proves the rule.

Nah, what's going on here is that people who couldn't care less are getting involved in something to make themselves feel a bit more holy in a way that requires no effort and has even less risk to their own day to day carry on. They don't actually give a toss, they are just clutching their pearls to demonstrate that they and their interests are somehow better. It's plain old fashioned wrong headed snobbery.

If I was wrong, every motorist would be up permanently in arms about the thousands of road deaths and injuries, insisting that everyone be retrained, tested, all vehicles restricted, liberties curtailed, licenses withdrawn, roads closed. But no, that would impinge on them instead of somebody else so best keep schtum.

Racists exist, of course they do. It's really not nice but I'm not going overboard to say how beastly it is because it doesn't need saying, and because I can't think of any other activity that does more to eradicate it while caring only about talent instead of class, background and which public school one attended.

Football is a meritocracy writ large and it's obvious that plenty of people in this country can't handle that so they attach some things together to build a weird narrative that supports their personal feelings of betterment over a kid off a council estate that drives a Ferrari, AND a Lamborghini AND a Bentley AND lives in a house ten times bigger AND has queues of potential lovers falling over them, for no other reason than they work in a meritocracy that recognises their talent and dedication, paid for by fans who respect it.

Now if a passing alien was to guess which sport was followed by racists, which do you think they would pick?

The chavvy footy lads


or tight whitey rugger buggers?


Here endeth the lesson. PS, I like rugby, but the other kind where you can't have a rest.

[johnm]

Football has become the catalyst for some seriously unpleasant people to give vent to their antisocial behaviour and we have no effective control mechanisms.

These people do not spend all their time on football......

.

[Keveng]

@Keveng - the way you've snipped that makes it look like that might be my opinion and not @eltonioni's.

It is most definitely not my opinion.

Apologies have fixed it

[Paul_Sengupta]

we have no effective control mechanisms.

Airport fire engines?

[riverrock]

we have no effective control mechanisms.

Airport fire engines?

that would be against their human rights, or something.

I suggest community payback orders, picking up litter, for every person spotted littering or being a lout. Give PCSOs a ticket book that allows them to handout the orders. Get them to clean up the next mess.

If this group are like many equivalents - the football is just an excuse - they've probably never been to a game before.

[Keveng]

I am bemused that you are doing your utmost to normalise the racist and socially deviant side of the support for the game by saying its part and parcel no it isnt and the clubs could do so much more to stamp it out, stopped going to internationals with my son when he was a kid as it wasn't so much a game but a legitimised arena for the knuckle dragging fans to show their true colours.

If you were actually a fan and had pride in the game you would be the one clamouring to do all that was necessary to improve the image and agree to what ever rules are required, so you aren't tarnished with the same brush as those miscreants in Leicester square. Why do you want people who have no interest to fix something for you ??

Don't be so daft, I'm not normalising anything. Show me another major industry in this country where a third of the leaders are black and are literally worshipped by old and young alike. The exceptions are what proves the rule.

Nah, what's going on here is that people who couldn't care less are getting involved in something to make themselves feel a bit more holy in a way that requires no effort and has even less risk to their own day to day carry on. They don't actually give a toss, they are just clutching their pearls to demonstrate that they and their interests are somehow better. It's plain old fashioned wrong headed snobbery.

If I was wrong, every motorist would be up permanently in arms about the thousands of road deaths and injuries, insisting that everyone be retrained, tested, all vehicles restricted, liberties curtailed, licenses withdrawn, roads closed. But no, that would impinge on them instead of somebody else so best keep schtum.

Racists exist, of course they do. It's really not nice but I'm not going overboard to say how beastly it is because it doesn't need saying, and because I can't think of any other activity that does more to eradicate it while caring only about talent instead of class, background and which public school one attended.

Football is a meritocracy writ large and it's obvious that plenty of people in this country can't handle that so they attach some things together to build a weird narrative that supports their personal feelings of betterment over a kid off a council estate that drives a Ferrari, AND a Lamborghini AND a Bentley AND lives in a house ten times bigger AND has queues of potential lovers falling over them, for no other reason than they work in a meritocracy that recognises their talent and dedication, paid for by fans who respect it.

Now if a passing alien was to guess which sport was followed by racists, which do you think they would pick?

The chavvy footy lads


or tight whitey rugger buggers?


Here endeth the lesson. PS, I like rugby, but the other kind where you can't have a rest.

You are deflecting again, pointing at every one else saying but but... however you dont see any of that behaviour in other sports (before you go showing pictures of parks ) , just by doing nothing you allow this behaviour to carry on , you as a supporter should be actively shutting racists down, calling them out see one in the stand video them and post it on social media let them understand that their moronic behaviour has consequences, Dot just say oh well it happens, you should be going overboard and saying how abhorrent it is, its Your sport but by doing nothing you just the same as them , I agree Football is a huge part of the culture in England so stamping out racism and racist violent behaviour there, would go a huge way to stamping it out in the wider context.
If that's how you teach a lesson then that's pretty poor, i feel neither holy nor involved and i hope that there will be a day the people will look at any activity that allows such behaviour to be legislated out of existence.

[eltonioni]

I agree Football is a huge part of the culture in England so stamping out racism and racist violent behaviour there, would go a huge way to stamping it out in the wider context.

Right there in that sentence, I believe you have nailed your misunderstanding. Racists are racists whether or not they are wearing football colours. I've met more overt racists in business than I ever have at Hillsborough.

On reflection, would you still think that having no racists around football would mean that there are no racists? That is in effect what you are saying.

If you don't think so, it follows that it's not football that's racist.


More generally and personally speaking, I've always thought that the best way to not be a filthy racist, is to not be a filthy racist. Sadly there are still bigoted people out there who are deeply prejudiced against folk who aren't like them.

[Mike Tango]

And now you have all the political dog whistlers expressing their surprise and how offended they supposedly are by the appearance of dogs.

It’s a joke.

[Cessna571]

“England captain Harry Kane criticises fans who racially abused Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho & Bukayo Saka “

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57813679


Well done Harry, this is what we need, football denouncing the racists in football who call themselves fans.