For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
#1822368
These days zoos just make me feel guilty about past pleasures when we didn't know better. Obviously, the bloke can make his own poor life and death decisions, but is this sort of thing still on from the bear's POV?

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By JAFO
#1822371
It's a difficult one, isn't it?

I am not generally a fan of zoos just so the public can gawp at some poor animal but I believe there are many places where they're the last hope for a species because of our idiocy elsewhere on the planet.

I believe that the place in the clip is a wildlife refuge where they rescue orphaned and injured wildlife and attempt to eventually return their residents to the wild if at all possible. I'm not sure if that's the case with these bears.

Should we feed them cake with a spoon and drink from a cup? Probably not but the bears did not seem to mind and if, for whatever reason, they are going to be in this refuge for the rest of their natural life, then I don't suppose it does too much harm.

I would give my right arm to get up close to bears like that but there is always the chance that the bear would take that offer literally.
#1822377
I have never been a real fan of zoos, although as JAFO rightly says, without them many species probably wouldn't survive. It is a difficult balance and at least they are free of poachers in them and many zoos have made a real effort to better replicate their natural habitat as well as possible. Simply keep animals like lions and tigers in empty cages is unacceptable today.

I will confess to taking a certain pleasure in teaching a mynah bird in a zoo in Hawaii to mimic "God save the Queen". I considered that to be 30 minutes very well spent! :lol:

PW
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#1822383
Neither am I - I’ve only been to a zoo once and swore never again. They live in a miserable existence. I’m in favour of centres that give hope to saving species however.
China has a lot to answer for in their illegal trade in Ivory and rhino horn and the recent coverage of the Wuhan market indicates that they will eat just about anything that moves.
I would take the Ivory/ horn poachers, trophy hunters and drop them, unarmed, right into the middle of the plains of Africa to level the playing field.
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By MachFlyer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1822389
eltonioni wrote:These days zoos just make me feel guilty about past pleasures when we didn't know better. Obviously, the bloke can make his own poor life and death decisions, but is this sort of thing still on from the bear's POV?



I agree it doesn’t sit comfortably these days.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1822398
The original point of zoos was twofold, get the public in to see exotic species, use the money on scientific study of the beasts. By modern standards neither was ideal to put it mildly.

Having been dragged through panda "reserves" and markets in China, as well as taking trips on the Lee River and the Yangtse, I can't say I am an admirer of Chinese relations with the environment and natural world. The Chinese aren't helping the Africans either.......

Places where wildlife are protected within natural habitat are the best compromise IMHO and controlled access to such places can be managed reasonably well, at least I felt that on our trips around the NgoroNgoro crater and the Serengeti co-existence was OK for both parties.

I spent Saturday planting hedgerow on a large farm not far from here and sitting quietly in the car at lunch break time we were lucky see 4 larks ascending and in full song and by a strange coincidence 4 deer trotted across the field. There's a fair bit of wildlife still coexisting with agriculture and efforts to safeguard it and enhance it are continuing and many landowners and farmers are keen to support the work.
#1822407
The RSPB a and SNH have finally realised that the reintroduction of the sea eagle was, at least, misjudged. They attack golden eagles, full grown sheep, and their lambs are easy pickings. Now, another idiot wants to reintroduce the Lynx stating that they will control deer - much less effort for sheep. Just one single Buzzard can wreak havoc on ground nesting birds. Beavers cause untold damage to saplings and mature trees. These animals became extinct for a reason. Salmon populations in our rivers and coastal waters have almost been wiped out by an explosion in seal numbers.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1822413
The main reason for those creatures to disappear was the destruction of their habitat and hunting by man. However reintroduction is still bonkers unless the role of Homo sapiens changes.

It can work though, motorways created a lot of carrion and the reintroduction of red kites has rebalanced populations of corvids especially magpies which has helped small bird populations.

Wild boar introduced in the New Forest are controlled by humans who sell the meat at farmers markets

Beaver introduction has helped with flood management in some places
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#1822425
Not total extinction but in certain localities where predation is unacceptable. Should I stand by for instance whilst a blackback gull starts to eat a live lamb in the act of being born. Out west the reintroduction of the sea eagle, in particular, takes a heavy toll on stock.
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By JAFO
#1822429
I get the difficulties people face, Bill, but who gets to decide what is unacceptable?

How long is it before "certain localities" become all the localities in which the animal is?

I'm sure in the instance you mention, I'd shoo the gull away. That's different to destroying the population of black-backed gulls.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1822431
The sea eagle will go after the black backed gull... AFAIK a sea eagle taking a lamb would be rare but not unknown, they'll take small mammals and a new born lamb could be similar in size to a large cat and both are viable prey in terms of weight.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1822432
Zoos are not all bad:

Many of them actively promote breeding programmes of endangered species and this research does not come cheap:

If shoving an enclosure full of ten-a-penny meerkats in to bring in the punters serves to finance these programmes I will not demur.

Peter