For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
#1802595
Not me, my days of employment have long gone, but for someone close.

If an employee is to be made redundant it appears they should be informed before the initial meeting where this is raised that it is the intended topic, thus giving them the opportunity to bring with them the colleague that they are entitled to have present at the meeting. (Yes/No)

If said employee is summoned to a meeting and not prebriefed they are entitled to walk out of that meeting as it isn't valid (Yes/No)

In your opinion, would the better choice a) be to walk out, as above, remaking the meeting with a colleague present. Or b) to allow the meeting to go ahead in the hope that the breach of procedure could be turned to their advantage later (a/b)

Many thanks

Rob P
#1802598
No, that's totally wrong. This employee is miles off the point where they are entitled to be accompanied.

It goes like this:-

1) Initial proposal meeting - this can be individual or the whole group of affected employees

2) First individual informal meeting

3) Second individual informal meeting

4) Third individual formal meeting - this is the one where you can be accompanied by a colleague or union rep.
Rob P, Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1802599
I think you may be thinking of disciplinary / grievance meetings where the right to be accompanied is a legal right. I don't believe the same exists for redundancy. The key point with redundancy is usually that there should be consultation before redundancy, so I thought it was high risk to invite someone to a meeting and tell them that they were being made redundant, without having a prior meeting to consult them about the prospect.
Last edited by rikur_ on Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dusty_B liked this
#1802600
People are never reduntant, their job may be, so the really formal meeting with union reps etc, should be to get the best paying package available.

Of course you can always let a company let you go with no meetings under the guise of reduntancy and then fill the post with a different name so you can claim constructive dismissal, and see you at the tribunal. :thumright:
#1802613
Rob P wrote:Not me, my days of employment have long gone, but for someone close.

If an employee is to be made redundant it appears they should be informed before the initial meeting where this is raised that it is the intended topic, thus giving them the opportunity to bring with them the colleague that they are entitled to have present at the meeting. (Yes/No)

If said employee is summoned to a meeting and not prebriefed they are entitled to walk out of that meeting as it isn't valid (Yes/No)

In your opinion, would the better choice a) be to walk out, as above, remaking the meeting with a colleague present. Or b) to allow the meeting to go ahead in the hope that the breach of procedure could be turned to their advantage later (a/b)

Many thanks

Rob P


The underlying question I would ask is what does one hope to achieve by either walking out or having a colleague present? Walking out would just seem to be an attempt to frustrate the process, and I'm not convinced anyone has a right to know what a meeting is about before it happens - but I could be wrong. Bringing a colleague is usually either (a) moral support if you feel you need it, or (b) making sure the boss doesn't say anything they wouldn't want getting around the office. On the one or two occassions I've been anywhere near something like this, the one obvious point is that the accompanying colleague feels incredibly awkward because of divided loyalties - often asked to attend by someone they might view as a friend and at the same time wanting to remain in good standing with the boss.

As @FlarePath says it is the job that is redundant not the person. If they are the only person in that particular job, then the whole consultation/selection thing can be a bit of a box-ticking exercise.

Has an unexpected meeting been dropped into someone's calendar with no subject specified?
Last edited by defcribed on Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1802615
defcribed wrote:
Has an unexpected meeting been dropped into someone's calendar with no subject specified?


Yes. Precisely.

Rob P
#1802616
Rob P wrote:Yes. Precisely.

Rob P


I would just straight up ask what it's about.

Once or twice I've had it happen to me and absolutely carped myself, then just called the boss and asked what it's about. Nothing of importance at all! I've then reminded them that people don't like unidentified meetings!
#1802626
defcribed wrote:I would just straight up ask what it's about.


Tried that (remote working), line manager being very difficult to get hold of, not returning calls. Meeting scheduled for Thursday PM

Rob P
#1802629
Rob P wrote:Tried that (remote working), line manager being very difficult to get hold of, not returning calls. Meeting scheduled for Thursday PM

Rob P


I'll admit then that it doesn't look great.

What is the person's honest appraisal of their employer's business, their own role, sustainability etc? Most people at risk of genuine redundancy can see the writing on the wall before the process happens, if they are honest about their situation.

That's not to say that the redundancy process doesn't get abused when it becomes expedient to shed particular individuals or cut some cost out of a department.
#1802631
It is unlikely that the business is on shaky foundations, particularly in the present situation.

There are issues with an HR functionary which would appear to be a personal enmity.

Rob P
#1802643
Rob P wrote:There are issues with an HR functionary which would appear to be a personal enmity.Rob P


In my experience HR bods are more aware than most that they cannot abuse their power to further personal agendas. They spent a decent amount of their time kicking managers into line and telling them "you can't do that".

In that same experience, they are certainly not averse to using the fear that surrounds 'a chat with HR' as a psychological weapon if you upset them or if they feel you do not sufficiently respect their role in the organisation.

It's like a very barky dog with no teeth. But if you do actually do something bad, it suddenly grows teeth and chomps ya nadgers off.
#1802751
FlarePath wrote:Of course you can always let a company let you go with no meetings under the guise of reduntancy and then fill the post with a different name so you can claim constructive dismissal, and see you at the tribunal. :thumright:

What makes that acceptable? :?