There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By eltonioni
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:58 am #1838953
Happily, it looks increasingly like the domestic Vaccine Passport will come to nought. News today that retailers have sided with the hospitality trade to reject this nonsense plan for a dogs-breakfast of a backdoor biometric ID card scheme.

As micromanagers eventually discover, the wisdom of crowds inevitably wins out in the end. ;)
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By johnm
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:17 pm #1838957
My take on the numbers is that risk from AZ vaccine ought to be negligible for all except possibly the youngest and fittest adults and since there are alternative vaccines which appear to carry a smaller risk youngsters should have the alternative where possible.
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By PeteSpencer
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:08 pm #1838997
johnm wrote:My take on the numbers is that risk from AZ vaccine ought to be negligible for all except possibly the youngest and fittest adults and since there are alternative vaccines which appear to carry a smaller risk youngsters should have the alternative where possible.


Nobody has mentioned that in young women (the very group we are agonising over) taking the combined oral contraceptive pill, the risk of venous thrombo embolism (a relatively dangerous/often life threatening type of thrombotic effect, comparable but not the same as the cerebral thromboses) is variously reported as between 4 and 10 per 10,000 women per year.

I.e. an ongoing risk orders of magnitude greater than A-Z Covid vaccination risk.

Yet women are happy with this lifestyle choice which stays with them year in, year out, as opposed to the remote one off chance of AstraZeneca thrombosis.
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By Propwash
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:13 pm #1838998
PeteSpencer wrote:Nobody has mentioned that in young women (the very group we are agonising over) taking the combined oral contraceptive pill, the risk of venous thrombo embolism (a relatively dangerous/often life threatening type of thrombotic effect, comparable but not the same as the cerebral thromboses) is variously reported as between 4 and 10 per 10,000 women per year.

I.e. an ongoing risk orders of magnitude greater than A-Z Covid vaccination risk.

Yet women are happy with this lifestyle choice which stays with them year in, year out, as opposed to the remote one off chance of AstraZeneca thrombosis.

Ahem.

Propwash wrote:I read somewhere, but can't now recall where, that the risk of blood clots from the AZ vaccine is a fraction of that from taking oral contraceptive pills. I doubt many women give that much a second thought when taking it.

PW


:wink:

PW
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By Flyingfemme
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:40 pm #1839018
I see that blood clots are a frequent feature of serious coronavirus infections - particularly high in those cases that go to ICU. So are they a feature of the disease or an element of the defence? Could the vaccine trigger this defence? Maybe some people are just more clot-prone than others? It needs plenty more scrutiny.
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By MikeB
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:06 pm #1839048
To be fair to that demographic John, it is the Govt who have decreed the AZ won't be administered based on SAGE advice, not the individuals refusing to take it.

I don't doubt however that there are plenty who would have decline the AZ jab had it been offered. A significant majority of those will likely decline the Pfizer and/or Moderna too. So the Darwin awards committee can remain on standby...
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By malcolmfrost
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:43 pm #1839063
MikeB wrote:To be fair to that demographic John, it is the Govt who have decreed the AZ won't be administered based on SAGE advice, not the individuals refusing to take it.


Er not quite! The JCVI have recommended that 29 and under are offered a different vaccine if available based on advice from the MHRA. Luckily the Government aren't involved :D
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By skydriller
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:48 pm #1839078
MikeB wrote:I don't doubt however that there are plenty who would have decline the AZ jab had it been offered. A significant majority of those will likely decline the Pfizer and/or Moderna too. So the Darwin awards committee can remain on standby...
johnm wrote:The Darwin Awards were not created for no reason :D


Darwin awards? Seriously?

This was discussed on various news channels this morning: There is a 1 in a million chance of a fit <30yr old dying of C19... if the chance of dying of any side effect is greater than 1 in a million, why would you get vaccinated? Whats in it for the <30yr old? The arguement then went on to vaccination passports and if forcing young people to be vaccinated when there is no benefit to them so they are allowed into shops is infringing their human rights.

Dont get me wrong, Im in my 40s, and will get vaccinated as soon as I can. But if I were 20 I may think differently.

Regards, SD..
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Re: There is n̶o̶ vaccine - what's the exit strategy?

By johnm
 Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:54 pm #1839080
That’s why there’s a choice of vaccines and the likelihood of side effects varies and so the young are being recommended Pfizer or Moderna.

Given the risks of long COVID as opposed to death then a vaccine refusal is not very sensible
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