For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1853776
eltonioni wrote:.

refer the hon gent to an earlier post of mine
Nuance in discussion gets lost over multiple posts but I've been consistent. I'm not against stoping the virus from spreading, I'm against locking down all society. I am in favour of properly shielding the vulnerable and letting everyone else get back to what passes as normal. If "properly shielding" means filling five star hotels with the over 70's and giving them daily spa treatments and slap up Palm Court tea dances in their luxury prison then that works for me. Even if the Swinging Sixties makes a temporary return at least we won't have much of a baby boom to worry about. :).

Form an orderly queue :)


Sounds like every cruise ship I’ve avoided ever going on
flybymike, johnm, Flyingfemme and 1 others liked this
#1853798
The EU Commission are spinning the result with style; according to the FT ...

Ursula von der Leyen, president of the commission, also notched the verdict up as a win. 

“This decision confirms the position of the commission: AstraZeneca did not live up to the commitments it made in the contract. It is good to see that an independent judge confirms this,” she said


:roll:
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#1853799
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
eltonioni wrote:The thing is, if instead of a pointless and ineffective lock down of the entire nation back in March last year we had quarantined the elderly and vulnerable we would not have had the death toll we've seen.


How do you work that one out? We *DID* quarantine the elderly and vulnerable. This is why we *only* have 150,000 deaths, rather than the 800,0000+ we would have had otherwise.


But it wasn't done properly in most cases. A friend has his mother in a home; they locked down hard, and fast, accepting nobody from anywhere outside. So they imported no infections from hospitals. They kept it up for over a year - no visitors and strictly controlled staff. There was not a single infection, never mind any illness. Happily his mother has dementia and doesn't recognise her family - so she was not upset by it all. They recently opened up and allowed him to take her to a hospital appointment.

If they had also segregated covid infections in hospitals - maybe used different hospitals for "normal" and covid? - we could have also cut out the (estimated) 25% of all infections that originated in hospitals.

Putting health staff at the head of the queue for vaccination would have been another smart step.

Paul_Sengupta wrote:snip As an island nation we were ideally placed to do the same. Alas we didn't.

The UK is not NZ - we are a busy crossroads as well as heavily dependant on imported goods to keep day-to-day life going. Our imports do not all unload from boats at arms-length. We could have given up many luxuries for the duration but I doubt that would have washed with the Great British Public. And it probably would not have been enough.

The Global Village comes with its own challenges - and this is a doozy. Nobody wants to go back to the bad old days of limited choice, shortages of "stuff" and travel only for the very well off. There was no right or wrong way to meet this pandemic - everyone made it up as they went along and plenty of people made bad choices on the way. One of the major problems with "society" today is that everyone holds everyone else to far higher standards than they are willing to live up to themselves........
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User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853809
Flyingfemme wrote:But it wasn't done properly in most cases.


This is true. Some did it properly, with all the staff living in, etc. This is the issue though, all staff, health workers, food providers, etc, would have had to be in isolation as well. Having healthcare workers seeing patients outside the care system, having someone in the chain having children in school, having someone in the chain taking a trip on public transport, all that is going to break the isolation.

I agree with hospitals being better isolated, etc, but it only takes one person who isn't in the isolation chain, especially if the virus is/was allowed to spread among the entire population, so contaminate the whole lot - which was what happened in many cases.

As for Britain, we could have locked down straight away, we could have had everyone coming into the country isolate in special hotels for a fortnight, we could have had all the lorry drivers parked up on an airfield in France awaiting a negative test before being allowed in (remember France did that, with lorries parked all over Manston).

Healthcare workers were the first to be vaccinated, even young ones. I have young relatives who are nurses and they were all vaccinated as soon as the vaccine became available.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853817
Just had a call from the theatre. Tomorrow’s performance is cancelled due to a cast member being in contact with someone who tested positive. :(

Happily the restaurant booking is still OK :D
#1853827
More from Sydney (NSW not NS!):

'possibly infected areas' (related to movement of an airline crews' driver) increase in number and spread; again illustrating the value of effective 'venue check-in' App and general compliance therewith:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-18/ ... /100225850

NSW medical officials call for stricter restrictions because of the greater transmissibility of the Delta variant:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-18/ ... /100223740

Federal government may cover normal appointment fees for the 'vaccine-wary' to seek advice from GPs:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-18/ ... /100224426
#1853877
Jim Jones wrote:... the old and frail…

Cruise ships are full of them, booming business dontchaknow.

Neve mind, best to keep the kids locked up instead so we don't upset the oldies fragile sensibilities. Next thing y'know they will be wanting to build on the greenbelt!!
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853888
Going by the press statement of AZ may not be the best place to find a somewhat balanced view.

The Beeb reported:

What exactly did the judge order?

The judge at the Court of First Instance in Brussels ordered AstraZeneca to deliver 15m doses by 26 July, another 20m by 23 August and another 15m by 27 September, for a total of 50m doses.

If the company fails to do so, the order says, it must pay a penalty of €10 (£8.5; $12) per dose not delivered.

But the demand for 120m doses by the end of this month was not accepted.

Welcoming the court order, AstraZeneca said it had already supplied more than 70m doses to the EU and would "substantially exceed" 80.2m doses by the end of June.

It noted that the order acknowledged that "the difficulties experienced by AstraZeneca in this unprecedented situation" had had a "substantial impact on the delay" of vaccine deliveries.

"AstraZeneca now looks forward to renewed collaboration with the European Commission to help combat the pandemic in Europe," it added.

The President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, also welcomed the order but said it confirmed the Commission's view that AstraZeneca had not lived "up to the commitments it made in the contract".

"It is good to see that an independent judge confirms this," she said. "This shows that our European vaccination campaign not only delivers for our citizens day by day. It also demonstrates, that it was founded on a sound legal basis."

What else do the two sides disagree on?

A lawyer representing the EU said the court order meant AstraZeneca must also use a British factory, Oxford Biomedica, to deliver Covid-19 vaccines to the EU if necessary. The factory has been used to supply the vaccine to the UK.

Among other things, the court order says: "The choice to monopolise the Oxford site for the benefit of the UK and in so doing to deprive the EU of an expressly foreseen production site seems even more prejudicial considering its production capacity is twice that of other sites."

But AstraZeneca says the legal judgement does not oblige the company to use the Oxford BioMedica plant to fulfil its contract with the EU.

A further court ruling is expected in September on whether AstraZeneca made its best efforts to fulfil its advance purchase agreement with the EU.

The original June target of 300m doses was agreed in negotiations last summer but was then cut by AstraZeneca to 100m because of production problems and export restrictions.

That reduction prompted the EU to make its demand for 120m doses.


I know that all the entrepreneurs posting on this thread would happily take a supplier failing to deliver on a contract by >60% would happily take that failure lying down.

:lol:
User avatar
By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853907
Flyingfemme wrote:
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
eltonioni wrote:The thing is, if instead of a pointless and ineffective lock down of the entire nation back in March last year we had quarantined the elderly and vulnerable we would not have had the death toll we've seen.


How do you work that one out? We *DID* quarantine the elderly and vulnerable. This is why we *only* have 150,000 deaths, rather than the 800,0000+ we would have had otherwise.


But it wasn't done properly in most cases.

/snipped to save space/

The Global Village comes with its own challenges - and this is a doozy. Nobody wants to go back to the bad old days of limited choice, shortages of "stuff" and travel only for the very well off. There was no right or wrong way to meet this pandemic - everyone made it up as they went along and plenty of people made bad choices on the way. One of the major problems with "society" today is that everyone holds everyone else to far higher standards than they are willing to live up to themselves........


:clap: :clap: Best post this year. Spot on @Flyingfemme
kanga liked this
#1853918
Meanwhile - 60 years ago today this young lad, two weeks into his seventeenth year, broke free from the slavery that was Victorian farming, never been on a train before, set out on a fabulous 23 year journey that took him to every corner of the globe in the RN.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853930
Digging through the data is flipping difficult....but....

Hospitalisations
8th June 188
9th June 186
10th June 202
11th June 177
12th June 177
13th June 222
14th June 221


Cases
8th June 7667
9th June 7983
10th June 7838*
12th June 6100
13th June 6935

* 11th is missing it seems.

No cause for complacency but no need for panic either I feel, if the cases stabilise and go down over the coming week and the hospitalisation doesn't get significantly worse we might see some cause for optimism.
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