For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By flybymike
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878251
johnm wrote:Neil Oliver is not quite correct. Vaccinated people who get infected have a lower viral load and so will be a bit less likely to pass it on than unvaccinated.


Why do you keep saying that when you’ve already said this?

It seems that the double jabbed can still pass on the Delta variant with a viral load similar to those unvaccinated, it's just that the double jab mitigates the severity of disease suffered by that infected person.


https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211 ... riant.aspx

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21261387v1

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21261387v1

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/doub ... 51377.html
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By flybymike
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878253
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Neil Oliver is an idiot.

Proclaiming to abhor big pharma and MSM for being there and pushing their stuff to further their own financial and political agendas, whilst using a platform which is funded by hedge funds and private investors who are out to further their own financial and political agenda.

Suppose there is still a market for that sort of stuff.


He’s an idiot just because he uses the same means of communication which is used and funded by those with with whom you are more inclined to agree?
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878255
flybymike wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Sadly not everyone is able to make good choices for themselves and therefore it is not bad to try and make the making of good choices better.
'


And presumably you are the arbiter of what their choices will be.


That would be rather great innit?

;)

Smoking less, fewer people smoking, non-social acceptance of drink driving to name but a few things which have happened over the last few decades as a result of some legislation but more importantly nudging of people into 'better' behaviour.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878256
flybymike wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Neil Oliver is an idiot.

Proclaiming to abhor big pharma and MSM for being there and pushing their stuff to further their own financial and political agendas, whilst using a platform which is funded by hedge funds and private investors who are out to further their own financial and political agenda.

Suppose there is still a market for that sort of stuff.


He’s an idiot just because he uses the same means of communication which is used and funded by those with with whom you are more inclined to agree?


No he is an idiot because he uses the a platform provided by those trying to achieve the same as those who he rails against.

I don't agree with anyone - you should have realised that by now. :D
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878315
Low bar for humour these days :lol:

There used to be a thing called ALARP. Just how low does the risk have to be? I've been vacinated the prevention that gives to me and others is way higher than playing around with masks (yes, yes... "Other people", but if they've chosen not to have a vaccine that's their choice - bet in an average year I bump into a single immunocompromised person, though they would have likely been vacinated).

John, I know you love the environment. 1.6 billion disposable plastic masks apparently in the sea in 2020. Everything has a cost and benefit. The balance is way out.

The deaths on a single average year from light aircraft are about on par with the covid deaths so far (over 2 years) if you ratio 28,000 pilots up to a population of 67 million. But we still get in our planes, why? Because we like it and it's not that actually that risky. But apparently with covid it is an unacceptable level, perhaps we all should be made to stop flying for our own good and the good of others we might crash into on the way down. If we were all 100% rational, logical people, concerned at preserving our lives we wouldn't get in our planes.

I would argue traffic, OSHA, and airlines in the above meme is personal protection also and are different to potentially saving somebody else who transits past you for a second in the shop. Chances are with vacinne rates, they have been vacinated too.

We are 50% in agreement I think that going to be enough. Fortunately it's the more meaningful 50% on vacinnation.
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878346
Funny joke, yes @johnm but actually the TSA BS of taking a nail file or nail clippers from you is particularly apt in much the same way as masks... similarly OSHA, who on here loves their HiVis at the aerodrome?? And if the airlines really had any interest in saving us we would have at the very least 3-point harnesses and a smoke hood... dont get me started on the "your seat is a flotation device"...

Its not about personal freedom... its about reality vs symbols. Where do you draw the "this is BS" line when it comes to "rules"??

Regards, SD..
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878348
Tricky stuff risk assessment and liability :D Both have to be predicated on the assumption that the bulk of the population are idiots and some are awkward idiots :D
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878362
I don't think they are. Most of humanity is underrated and have common sense to do some dynamic risk assessment of all the situations they are in.

They can be intelligent in one sphere and less so in another. I wouldn't ask Chris Whitty about jet propulsion, but he might know the basic principles be able to comment on their application etc.

Even those that may be truly idiotic you still need in some respect - to do the things you won't.

A number of people are pious controlling misanthropes though who think they are better than everyone.
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By Pete L
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878364
The reason for safety is not idiocy or malice.

Just like flying, familiarity erodes vigilance on repeated activity and human error rates are high. Stuff also breaks. People help out and end up hurting themselves.

My current trade is automated warehouses. They're reasonably safe compared to manual ones where one mistake with a forklift and you can drop a pallet on someone's head or bring the whole rack down. But you won't outrun the equipment if it moves and the edges are sharp.

In big places not everyone speaks good English and some workers take pride in doing the task at maximum speed.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878366
For the avoidance of doubt, I do have some proper H&S and risk assessment experience outside flying, having worked on the Channel Tunnel, UK Railway and London Underground. I still have my hardhats (out of date but useful in occasional circumstances) and hi vis overalls :-)
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878375
To a hammer everything looks like a nail.

@Pete L Exactly. Not stupidity but to catch the things that aren't outwardly obvious but represent a real harm. Positive intent with unintended consequence.

It's pretty obvious to me not to mix acids and solvents but at a place my chemist used to work a biologist thought oh it just says "liquid waste" cue some energetic activity. :cyclopsani:
Last edited by StratoTramp on Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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