For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877232
100poundburger wrote:Hi Paul, thing about the complacency is that some of the rules are just stupid, so when this occurs people react accordingly, like , for example here, in Northern Ireland you need face masks to go to Tesco for a pint of milk, but, no such masking up is required to go to church....how does that work ?

So is it complacency or is it people seeing something clearly ridiculous ..and ignoring it.


I doubt that people break the rules on masking in shops because no masks need to be worn in church, it is more complicated than that.

Mixed messages
Frequent changes in rules/guidance
Non-Compliance by those in the public eye without consequences
Media reporting and misinformation
Public attitudes to rules
Leadership

to name but a few.
#1877235
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
No, it was changed because that is what HMG wanted.


On that theme, I heard that a six month extension to the Draconian Coronavirus Act, which removes Parliament from decision making in favour of fiat by whosoever is in the chair, has just been waved through Parliament without even a vote. Apparently our Parliamentarians are now so utterly hopeless that they can't even discuss what are, in the wrong hands, fascistic laws.

Two things strike me as being important right now;

First, regarding liberty and rights, thank god that Boris Johnson is PM with a stonking majority. For the moment.

And second, as they say, Winter is coming. My first point might wither quickly and Christ knows what will unfold.
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#1877237
@100poundburger , there can be little doubt that there is an illogical inconsistency in some of the rules, but in the example you quote the way I see it is wearing a mask isn't a great imposition and it makes more sense to also wear them in church. Using an inconsistency to justify acting imprudently and not wearing them when required in shops is definitely complacency in my book.

Masks are a contentious issue as the benefits appear to be limited and none of us like wearing them, but the attitude that says the benefits are tiny so why bother is similar to the attitude that says why bother to dip the tanks before flight when I have a fuel gauge. Minimal extra risk, but when the effort is so small why not just do it rather than argue the toss? Today might just be the day the fuel gauge stuck.

Whether we like it or not, we are still in a pandemic, and current cases, hospitalisations, and deaths urge caution.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877240
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:I doubt that people break the rules on masking in shops because no masks need to be worn in church, it is more complicated than that.

Mixed messages
Frequent changes in rules/guidance
Non-Compliance by those in the public eye without consequences
Media reporting and misinformation
Public attitudes to rules
Leadership

to name but a few.

.. to which I would add:

- Not giving a damn about anyone else
- Not putting a moment's thought into anything to do with responsibility, if it conflicts with their 'right' to do whatever they damn well please.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877260
The underlying issue is moving from legal requirement for masks in crowded indoor spaces to personal discretion. But any shop or church or other premises can make masks a condition of entry if they so choose.

Complacency usually follows from lack of leadership as people lack clear guidance and direction.

This is a long way from over and I don't like the emerging picture I'm seeing one little bit... :pale:
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877265
johnm wrote:The underlying issue is moving from legal requirement for masks in crowded indoor spaces to personal discretion. But any shop or church or other premises can make masks a condition of entry if they so choose.

In theory this is true.

But Transport for London is still mandating masks on all TfL services and stations, and this is being completely ignored by at least half of travellers.

If enough people flout the requirements, they are unenforceable. Large organisations don't have the staff, and small ones are afraid of losing business.

Without the reinforcement of having it as a legal requirement, it's a losing battle. And possibly even with it, now.
#1877275
johnm wrote:The underlying issue is moving from legal requirement for masks in crowded indoor spaces to personal discretion. But any shop or church or other premises can make masks a condition of entry if they so choose.

Complacency usually follows from lack of leadership as people lack clear guidance and direction.



In some of the supermarkets I visit, and we are legally required to wear them here, almost half of the shelf stackers don't wear them. Now, it might be that Tesco and others have recently taken on a lot of staff with medical reasons for not wearing masks, but I doubt it.

Leadership from store management is clearly lacking.

The more people see others breaking the rules, the more start following suit. It is hard to see things changing here until things are bad enough that lockdowns are imposed again. I really hope that isn't needed, but it is looking more and more likely that it might be.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877285
Paultheparaglider wrote:[It is hard to see things changing here until things are bad enough that lockdowns are imposed again. I really hope that isn't needed, but it is looking more and more likely that it might be.


Ain't going to happen I am sure.

Not through lack of necessity.
#1877320
johnm wrote:The underlying issue is moving from legal requirement for masks in crowded indoor spaces to personal discretion. But any shop or church or other premises can make masks a condition of entry if they so choose.

Complacency usually follows from lack of leadership as people lack clear guidance and direction.

This is a long way from over and I don't like the emerging picture I'm seeing one little bit... :pale:

I thought that it was fairly well established now that masks have marginal gains but it's the not gathering indoors that makes the big difference.

That said, we are at the point where the vast, vast, almost every single one of the total majority of very sick and dead people are those who were just waiting for something to come along and tip them over the edge and it happened to be Covid. So they still need to be properly protected while everyone else gets on with what passes as normal.

Why on earth are we still not properly protecting vulnerable people instead of constantly banging on about nonsense like jabbing children and showing medical records to get into nightclubs?
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By stevelup
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877323
70% of the COVID patients in our local hospital are unvaccinated.

All but one of the ICU COVID patients is unvaccinated.

How about mandatory vaccination unless medically exempt and if you decide not to get vaccinated, instead of blocking up an ICU bed, you get lovingly placed into a specially created respite cell until you croak? I mean, you can have a bit of water and stuff, I'm not an absolute maniac, but 20 doctors and nurses, nah.
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877334
I get the sentiment. ICU does tie a lot of talent down but it's as much their health service as they've also been paying for it over the years through taxes (hopefully!)

I do think not having a vacinne at this stage is silly though. People should be able to see empirically there are enough vacinated people around now (most of pop!) and they haven't dropped dead or turned into lizard people or 5G anttenae. But it's should still be a choice.

For some it might be the first time they've called on the NHS since being a kid. Can argue self inflicted or not by refusing a vacinne. But no-one intentionally catches a virus.

Segue: I'm going for another run tomorrow. It seems to be my preferred method of "NHS rebate" when I stack it every 1000kms or so. :lol: But I hadn't really called on it for 25+ years before I started running. I suppose tripping over a root and needing 6 stitches in my knee was self inflicted. But I think I've contributed enough since starting to paying taxes for that. That said not every fall needs stitches but I did need 4 in my eyebrow on the other occasions. I'll let you know how it goes. Thing I felt most guilty about was being a sweaty stinky runner in their hospital.

It's there for all, whether you have chronic diabetes or are just a smelly runner who likes to fall down in the woods. :lol: you can't pick and choose who gets care morally - but also equally because everybody in the UK pays for it and is a "stakeholder" in some regard.
Last edited by StratoTramp on Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:54 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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