[rikur_]

Who will be the first nation / region to demand a six tier system not to be outdone?

[Bill Haddow]

What struck me is that these are proposals by Scottish Government, which will be debated, presumably maybe amended, and voted on in Scottish Parliament. Rather different from UK government approach for England ..

Remember too that a couple of hospitality outlets in Glasgow have been granted injunctions by the sheriff court to stop the council from forcing them to shut.

We are not entirely governed by diktat up here.

Bill H

[skydriller]

Who will be the first nation / region to demand a six tier system not to be outdone?

I have so say my first reaction to seeing that headline/post was "She just has to be different doesnt she" followed almost imediately by the above...

As an aside, you might be interested to hear that around half the French departments are now under curfew from 9pm until 6am this weekend. The French govt obviously thinks that at 6am the virus goes dormant all day until 9pm...

Regards, SD..

[eltonioni]

Sodding lockdown enthusiasts with their taxpayer funded jobs. For now.

This says it all.

It's going to be a difficult winter for quite a few of the enthusiasts. Hope they are ready for everything that's going to come their way.

[Jim Jones]

Shutting any of the others on that list is not really on is it?

(I can’t find the source on the surveillance site, nor does that twitter account give a link)

[Flyingfemme]

Shutting any of the others on that list is not really on is it?

(I can’t find the source on the surveillance site, nor does that twitter account give a link)

So that makes it OK to close down businesses that are already struggling?

[johnm]

The surveillance report for week 40 (2nd October) contains a number of graphs and tables showing the incidence of Acute Respiratory Infections reported to PHE by institution age etc......and the report is here

My SiL who works at the NHS as well as SAGE predicted this which is why the circuit breaker idea was mooted, but I suspect that ship has sailed and it'll just have to work its way through like last time.

The authorities appear to have learned nothing and forgotten nothing since the start of the year

[skydriller]

Shutting any of the others on that list is not really on is it?

Never said it was. But if you want to "stop the virus", you dont shut down the 3% vector, leave the 28% vector and hope everything will be alright, do you?? You may as well not bother!!!

The authorities appear to have learned nothing and forgotten nothing since the start of the year

Im actually hoping that they have realised that you cant "stop the virus" without breaking the country financially and socially. As a french commentator said immediately following Macrons announcement to introduce curfews :

"well, we have to work, kids need to go to schools and universities, and you cant throw people out of carehomes or hospitals....so the only thing left is stop us going out and having fun...!?!?!"

Regards, SD..

[Miscellaneous]

What struck me is that these are proposals by Scottish Government, which will be debated, presumably maybe amended, and voted on in Scottish Parliament. Rather different from UK government approach for England ..

What's your rationale kanga? Irrespective of whether the action is right or wrong, why is there an expectation she should follow Boris?

[johnm]

The fallacy in this discussion is that in schools, care homes and hospitals precautions are taken and operated reliably.

Because of the pandemic of stupidity which rages outside such institutions precautions are not always reliable and cases then escalate quickly leading to hospital admissions and trying to ensure that health care capacity is not exceeded is the issue.

We still don't have any reliable system for test, trace and isolate and that is getting worse as the volume of tests increases because the infrastructure is not properly set up.

There is no reason why a fair chunk of normal life can't continue if precautions are properly observed, we've been doing most of the things we normally do all the way through, but very carefully and coping with the fact that some things are not actually available as they've been closed so we have to find other options.

In some cases the degree of activity is not economically viable but subsidies properly targeted can provide a way out of that.

[eltonioni]

Shutting any of the others on that list is not really on is it?

(I can’t find the source on the surveillance site, nor does that twitter account give a link)

So that makes it OK to close down businesses that are already struggling?

Its the political disease of Being Seen To Do Something innit.

The alternative seems, pretty much, to be as effective.

[Jim Jones]

Never said it was. But if you want to "stop the virus", you dont shut down the 3% vector, leave the 28% vector and hope everything will be alright, do you?? You may as well not bother!!!

.

From what I can gather about the data collection, the least reliable information comes from hospitality whereby people routinely give false information as they log in to the place, so their infection eventually gets assigned to wherever they are eventually diagnosed. Part of their thinking is the desire not to cause trouble to small local business. I know of a few who have deleted the Covid App for fear of the consequences to the hairdresser, gym, cafe etc if they should be infected coincidentally after attending, become positive and cause them to be closed .

[kanga]

What struck me is that these are proposals by Scottish Government, which will be debated, presumably maybe amended, and voted on in Scottish Parliament. Rather different from UK government approach for England ..

What's your rationale kanga? Irrespective of whether the action is right or wrong, why is there an expectation she should follow Boris?

I am not an epidemiologist nor a lawyer (English/Welsh nor Scots Law), so claim no expertise on the wisdom nor legality of any regulation; just a politics geek who am interested in (different) approaches to governance.

I have absolutely no expectation that the Scottish FM (your 'she', I assume) would or should follow the UK PM in decsions which are clearly within the devolved purview. My point was simply that the FM made the new regulations as proposals to be debated, possibly amended, and voted upon in their Parliament. By contrast, the UK PM (having, I believe, passed enabling legislation allowing pertinent regulation for England by Statutory Instrument; I am not challenging its legality, although, I gather, some may be) has promulgated such regulations as faits accomplis affecting different parts of England differently, publicly against the wishes of the elected leaders (eg, Metropolitan Mayors, County or City Leaders) and local Councillors of the areas affected, and without requiring further UK Parliament scrutiny, debate or vote; and apparently sees nothing amiss with such a centralised approach. I sought only to point out the difference.

[eltonioni]

I know of a few who have deleted the Covid App for fear of the consequences to the hairdresser, gym, cafe etc if they should be infected coincidentally after attending, become positive and cause them to be closed .

I know of a few who haven't installed the Covid App because they only receive statutory sick pay, or have to use their holiday allowance, if they have to self-isolate for two weeks.

They are all front line NHS workers.

[Miscellaneous]

I know of a few who have deleted the Covid App for fear of the consequences to the hairdresser, gym, cafe etc if they should be infected coincidentally after attending, become positive and cause them to be closed .

Do you know many hard of thinking, Jim?

@kanga I hear what you say, however, the rollings eyes give the impression you disapprove of the differences.