For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1904944
eltonioni wrote:@JAFO The "Long Covid" you describe isn't a thing for most people. It's fine, it really is.


It is a "thing" for a huge number of people. An estimated 1.3 million people living in private households in the UK (2% of the population and 6% of those who have had COVID) were experiencing self-reported long COVID. (Source: ONS Jan 22)

eltonioni wrote:On your mask graphic point @JAFO schools, hospitals, care homes, public transport, any workplace really where anything less than an N95 mask is pretty worthless, because the delusion has never really been about whether the masks everyone bar a tiny minority use do actually work, it's about the signals they give. Something isn't always better than nothing.


But the graphic you provided proved the exact opposite - something is better than nothing. "Repurposed pyjamas" are twice as good as nothing, "paper flimsies" are four times better than nothing.

How you can provide a graphic that shows that and then say the reverse is beyond me.

You keep asking me how many deaths I'd want to see before I said it was over and I keep telling you that it's not all about deaths so I don't think we need to do that again.
#1904962
I really don't think that you have a handle on the mask issue so let's move on to your turf.

JAFO wrote: You keep asking me how many deaths I'd want to see before I said it was over and I keep telling you that it's not all about deaths so I don't think we need to do that again.

Choose your own metric. How much / many or when or why or who? Make up your own rules, but tell us when YOU think it's over because all I hear is you shouting that it's not.
PeteSpencer, flybymike liked this
#1904970
@eltonioni - as you're refuting the evidence that you provided on masks, I'm not sure it's me who's confused but let's leave it now, eh? It's getting boring.

You keep asking for the exit strategy and when I think it's over and I keep trying to explain that your question is meaningless but you refuse to accept it.

It is not over, it might never be over, learn to live with that and learn to live with COVID.

A large number of people will get it, a proportion will suffer from the effects for a significant time and to a significant degree. Vaccinations and new treatments may change the proportions and effects. It is, however, probable that it will remain in circulation for a significant amount of time, maybe forever.

Asking when it's over is like asking when flu will be over or when the common cold will be over - it's meaningless. So, stop asking me.
#1904990
eltonioni wrote:Close the thread - it's a perfect circle!


Oh, come on, we can't close the thread before we even hit 500 pages of people repeating their entrenched views without listening to the opinions of others. Surely we should reach that milestone first and I, as ever, am happy to contribute.

As always, even though not a Yorkshireman, I am firmly of the belief that everyone is entitled to my opinion. :thumright:

:D
eltonioni, mick w, kanga and 2 others liked this
#1905000
JAFO wrote:
eltonioni wrote:Close the thread - it's a perfect circle!


Oh, come on, we can't close the thread before we even hit 500 pages of people repeating their entrenched views without listening to the opinions of others. Surely we should reach that milestone first and I, as ever, am happy to contribute.

As always, even though not a Yorkshireman, I am firmly of the belief that everyone is entitled to my opinion. :thumright:

:D

We are so, so close! :lol:
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1905006
Paultheparaglider wrote:
eltonioni wrote:Happily Covid isn't killing like it used to.


There is this notion that Omicron isn't a big killer. However, it has been killing a lot of people in Hong Kong recently. Granted this is mainly in the elderly and the unvaccinated, but it is a mistake to think it is just a bad cold.

and we still have a substantial number who haven't even had the first vaccine, let alone been boosted. Personally that's tough, until they start clogging up the NHS again!
Image
#1905015
As I've said, I don't think it's all about the deaths, I think it's about the possible long-term, life-limiting effects of the disease seen in about 1 in 20 people who have COVID - young, old, healthy, unhealthy, fat, thin, even vaccinated and unvaccinated.

However, the official figures say that 900 people have died in the last week with COVID, let's say, for arguments sake, that half died of COVID or where COVID was a significant contributory factor to them shuffling off this mortal coil.

That's about the same number of people who die due to heart disease every day, just to put it in context.

However, if they came up with a vaccination for heart disease I think most of us would take it. If they said wearing a mask when around others who may have heart disease would limit our chances of getting it, we probably would. If they told me that avoiding crowded places might avoid me clutching my chest and falling to the ground you would not find me in crowded places. If they told me that working from home would cut my chances of heart disease, I'd be at my computer in my jim-jams (as long as @eltonioni had not repurposed them) as quick as you like.

So, why people have fought similar measures to prevent COVID, I don't know.

In England COVID was the third leading cause of death last month. That doesn't seem like something that's over to me any more than we can claim heart disease or dementia is over.
MikeB liked this
#1905027
JAFO wrote:However, if they came up with a vaccination for heart disease I think most of us would take it. If they said wearing a mask when around others who may have heart disease would limit our chances of getting it, we probably would. If they told me that avoiding crowded places might avoid me clutching my chest and falling to the ground you would not find me in crowded places. If they told me that working from home would cut my chances of heart disease, I'd be at my computer in my jim-jams (as long as @eltonioni had not repurposed them) as quick as you like.

It’s merely a question of how little”living” you are prepared to put up with simply to survive. You could slit your wrists this afternoon and guarantee not to die of any of these nasty things. You have to die of something. “Old age” is not permitted any more.
Or you, and everyone who thinks like that, could hole up indoors and never meet anyone else for the rest of your life. Of course, you will still be dependant on those hardy souls who are willing to risk it to keep you fed, housed and powered. I’m alright, jack.
skydriller, flybymike liked this
#1905049
Flyingfemme wrote:Or you, and everyone who thinks like that, could hole up indoors and never meet anyone else for the rest of your life. Of course, you will still be dependant on those hardy souls who are willing to risk it to keep you fed, housed and powered. I’m alright, jack.


If my posts make me seem like that then I have misrepresented myself. I live every single day of my life to the fullest extent I can, I take risks but I also make sure that they are calculated risks.

Throughout the pandemic I have worked and travelled for work so don't presume that you know me.
kanga liked this
#1905055
In which case I apologise for the conclusion. I was simply reacting to what you said, not what you do.
I am seeing severe problems caused by restrictions in both of my parents. They have been “shielding” since March 2020 and have pretty much lost it. Dad has seen no friendly faces since his hospitalisation January and, due alzheimers, has no idea why he is deprived of his liberty and his jailers cover their faces. If yo think about it, pre 2020, only muggers, bank robbers and kidnappers did that. My mother veers from extreme to extreme and is reluctant to attend hospital for her many serious conditions - and getting somebody in with her is difficult. I don’t see it ever ending well.
JAFO, flybymike liked this
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