For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1870490
Watched the latest news last night with a growing feeling of depression :(

It seems that neither HMG nor BBC news have any idea what the word "plan" actually implies in practice. The scientists were clearly unhappy and dropped some heavy hints :-(
#1870494
The plans A&B couldn't really be any clearer, so perhaps it isn't "the plan(s)", HMG or the bbc where the problem lies:

Link https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518

What is England's Plan A?
It's called the Covid-19 Response: Autumn and Winter Plan.

Covid booster jabs will be offered to around 30 million people, including the over-50s, younger adults with health conditions and frontline health and social care workers.

Health Secretary Sajid Javid said Plan A would also include offering vaccines to youngsters aged 12-15 and continuing to encourage unvaccinated people to get jabbed.

Plan A also includes:

continuing the work of NHS Test and Trace and with free PCR tests
encouraging free flu vaccine take-up (extended to over-50s and secondary school pupils)
reminding people to let in fresh air if meeting indoors and to wear face coverings in crowded settings


What is England's Plan B?
If Plan A is not sufficient to prevent "unsustainable pressure" on the NHS, the government says Plan B will be required "as a last resort" - including:

compulsory face coverings in some settings
asking people to work from home
introducing vaccine passports

Plan B could be brought in at short notice as a response to "concerning" data.

Government scientific advisers haven't said exactly what this data would be, but say it's important to keep an eye on:

the number of hospitalisations
rapid rates of change in figures
the overall state of the NHS
Prime Minister Boris Johnson said parts of Plan B could be introduced gradually, rather than all at once.


-----

Try encouraging anyone you know who is older than 40 to ensure they've been jabbed. Twice.
#1870510
On 'Today' on R4 this morning there was an excellent session of 3 articulate 12yos questioning (apparently live) a Professor of (IIRC) immunology about Covid, vaccines, side-effects, 'Gillick competence', etc .. starting prepared but going on to clearly unprepared follow-up questions. The producers/presenters let it run almost up to the 0900 'pips', possibly longer than originally intended. The questions were more intelligent, and the answers perforce clearer with clear admission of remaining uncertainties, than many I've heard between professional presenters and more waffly (or prudently guarded) academic experts :thumright:
#1870514
kanga wrote: The questions were more intelligent, and the answers perforce clearer with clear admission of remaining uncertainties, than many I've heard between professional presenters and more waffly (or prudently guarded) academic experts :thumright:

That may because 12 year olds mostly lack any political bias. It is depressing how many of the professional questioners at the Covid press conferences seem to ask loaded questions looking for either the "gottcha" reply or one confirming the position clearly taken by whichever organisation they work for. And that seems to apply regardless of whether those organisations are nominally supportive or opposed to the government in office. Very rarely have I actually learnt much from the inevitably equally political answer. They have become as pointless as Prime Minister's Question Time in the chamber where the same applies.

I hope that isn't regarded as politics; it is merely meant as a spirit-defeating observation.

PW
kanga, TravellerBob, eltonioni and 2 others liked this
#1870521
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:It's a fallacy to think that only the over 40s are at risk.

I'm not aware anyone has said otherwise IRL.

kanga wrote:On 'Today' on R4 this morning there was an excellent session of 3 articulate 12yos questioning (apparently live) a Professor of (IIRC) immunology about Covid, vaccines, side-effects, 'Gillick competence', etc .

Perhaps they could replace kuennesburglar (wha'eva) with an articulate 12yo?
#1870537
Today's overseas foray: Africa (over last few days):

"Covid-19 Africa: What is happening with vaccine supplies?"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56100076

"Covid-19 vaccines in South Africa: Free football tickets for fans with jabs"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-58499691

.. and snipped from BBC quotes from Twitter, aggregated in https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/africa , headlines bolded for easier skimming:

"Mauritius ex-PM flown to India for Covid treatment

Former Mauritius Prime Minister Navin Ramgoolam has been moved to India for treatment after he tested positive for Covid-19

..

Mauritius has recorded a surge in Covid-19 deaths since last week."

------------

"9:07 11 Sep
Ex-Ivory Coast PM dies after contracting Covid, staff say

..."

------------------

"14:21 13 Sep
DR Congo president takes jab after rejecting AstraZeneca

The Democratic Republic of Congo's President Felix Tshisekedi has had a Moderna Covid-19 vaccine months after turning down an AstraZeneca jab over fears that it wasn’t safe.

DR Congo politicians have been reluctant to promote the use of vaccines.

Only about 1% of the population has been vaccinated.

In July, President Tshisekedi said he did not want to take the AstraZeneca jab because of concerns about blood clots, but would take another one when it became available.

..
DR Congo last week received its first batch of about 250,000 doses of Moderna.

Official data says just over 1,000 people in DR Congo have died as a result of the virus..."

----------------

"6:15 13 Sep
SA eases restrictions as Covid infections fall

.. an overnight curfew would be shortened, alcohol restrictions would be eased and larger gatherings allowed.

.. the supply of vaccines was no longer a constraint .. the authorities were looking for ways to introduce “vaccine passports, which can be used as evidence of vaccination for various purposes” - raising fears that vaccines would be compulsory.

About one in five adults in South Africa has now been fully vaccinated - a far higher rate than elsewhere in Africa.

It is the worst-hit country on the continent with close to 85,000 deaths from Covid-19."

------------------

"18:34 14 Sep
South Sudan receives its biggest vaccine delivery

..
The latest batch of vaccines delivered to South Sudan through the Covax initiative is the country's biggest yet.

It has received more than 150,000 Johnson & Johnson's single-dose jabs on Tuesday, donated by the US.
..
Earlier this month South Sudan received 59,520 doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine from Covax. The country had run out of supplies in July having immunized more than 50,000 people.

The US has pledged more doses of Johnson & Johnson for South Sudan, and an announcement of the exact numbers is expected next week.

About 3% of Africa's population has been vaccinated."

------------------

18:15 14 Sep
SA's top businesses lobby against UK Covid red list

..


More than 60 of South Africa's biggest businesses have started a campaign to lobby the UK government to have the country’s "red list" status revoked...
Before coronavirus hit the world, South Africa attracted 450,000 British travellers per year and that number has dropped significantly. .."

---------------------

Posted at 17:53 14 Sep17:53 14 Sep
Mozambique reports big drop in Covid cases

..
The health ministry has advised people to continue observing strict measures against the spread of the virus..

Coronavirus cases in Mozambique have fallen sharplyin the first two weeks of September, according to data from the health ministry.

In the first 13 days of the month, there were 2,943 new cases of Covid-19 and 107 hospital admissions – a big drop from the 15,385 cases and 542 admissions reported in the same period in August.

Over that same period, the number of coronavirus deaths fell by 88.3% – from 256 in August to 30 in September.

These improvements, the health ministry said, were largely due to the effectiveness of measures taken by the government to restrict the spread of the disease..."

-----------------------------
"15:53 14 Sep
Ivory Coast to launch Covid pass for visitors

..
People entering Ivory Coast will from Monday be required to present a "health pass" showing that they have been vaccinated, or taken a Covid-19 test in the last 72 hours.

..the validity of coronavirus PCR tests would be reduced from five to three days for travellers arriving to Ivory Coast by air.

Ivorian authorities recently warned that they might ban unvaccinated people from accessing public places."
User avatar
By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1870550
kanga wrote:On 'Today' on R4 this morning there was an excellent session of 3 articulate 12yos questioning (apparently live) a Professor of (IIRC) immunology about Covid, vaccines, side-effects, 'Gillick competence', etc .. starting prepared but going on to clearly unprepared follow-up questions. The producers/presenters let it run almost up to the 0900 'pips', possibly longer than originally intended. The questions were more intelligent, and the answers perforce clearer with clear admission of remaining uncertainties, than many I've heard between professional presenters and more waffly (or prudently guarded) academic experts :thumright:


I've seen several TV interviews of 12+ year olds in recent days and am heartened by their depth of knowledge, quality of reasoning and the selfless desire in many of them to 'protect granny'.

Puts many yorping adults on the streets of Birmingham to shame. :roll:
kanga, johnm, JAFO and 1 others liked this
#1870553
The kids were great although they were questions of a more personal and technical nature "I had Covid, how long until I can get the jab" but I was left thinking that the Gillick Competency is still being used in a situation that it wasn't intended for.

Ministers /health officials spent yesterday saying that if parent and child disagree then a health professional will bring them together to mediate a resolution. Schoool unions even said, "don't involve teachers"! Now call me cynical but I'm expecting pop-up clinics to appear in schools and whole class groups being marched into the gym for their jab. Is anyone really expecting that there is time or the energy to diarise mediation sessions with a nurse, parent and child to come to some equitable agreement that all parties are happy with? Nah, I'm not buying that.


@kanga They are absolutely right to lobby for the UK's "Red List" to be dropped. It's a nonsense when almost every country on it has half the infection rate of Scotland - from memory, most are at around a fifth.

The Common denominator for Ivory Coast and DRC = France & Macron undermining the AZ vaccine for shabby politics. I heard musings whether Macron will be responsible for more deaths than Hitler.


@Paultheparaglider the furthest from Sheffield that I ever saw Wednesday graffiti was in a SA township. I almost wept with joy. :D Inother news, the NI government are handing out a £100 pre-paid shopping card to everyone 18 and over in NI. No jab necessary, it's just an economic measure to get people spending on the High Street. I quite like the idea, would prefer a Wednesday season ticket though.
#1870556
eltonioni wrote:... Schoool unions even said, "don't involve teachers"! Now call me cynical but I'm expecting pop-up clinics to appear in schools and whole class groups being marched into the gym for their jab. ...


<'you're cynical' :wink: >

"Heads threatened with legal action over Covid jabs" -
'Pressure group Lawyers for Liberty warned school staff could be held liable if families objections are not listened to.. '
-..Association of School and College Leaders general secretary Geoff Barton said: "Many of our members have been receiving letters from various pressure groups threatening schools and colleges with legal action if they take part in any Covid-vaccination programme.
"This is extremely unhelpful and we would ask those involved in this correspondence to stop attempting to exert pressure on schools and colleges."
National Association of Head Teachers general secretary Paul Whiteman said the letters were "misguided", stressing the decision about immunising children was the government's and school staff would not be vaccinating children .
Clear guidance on the immunisation programme was needed without delay, he said..'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-58556614
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1870559
@eltonioni The Gillick competency issue is established UK law and no matter what you or I think of it, it is not going to get changed because some people have a wobble over it, now in relation to vaccinations. As I already wrote before, way more significant decisions about children's health have been taken based on it over several decades.

To compare Macron with Hitler is unconscionable and does nothing to comply with the latest request by Ian to keep politics out.
kanga liked this
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