For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1860671
JAFO wrote:@eltonioni - you've drawn me back in.

I completely agree that it is possible for people to dodge the rules if they should wish to do so but that is not a reason for not having rules. I know where I can probably get away with driving at 120mph, thereby putting myself and innocent bystanders at risk, that doesn't mean that I will do it. Most people won't.

The rules are there so that the majority of people who do follow them will have some impact on the possible spread of the virus. Of course they're not perfect, nothing is in this world but perfect is the enemy of good enough. I am glad that the organisers of Blackpool Rocks are doing all they can to protect those who wish to visit.

On the other point, if I don't choose to have a Yellow Fever jab I can't go to various parts of the world, if I don't choose to have a COVID jab then I can't go to nightclubs or, it would seem, Blackpool Rocks. Quite a reasonable parallel.

I hear you but I still say that these rules and Covid Passports are an exercise in kidding ourselves. Meantime, government / health officials impose huge restrictions on individuals and society in general for little to no medical effect but creating a whole new set of problems and issues. It could take years to unwind these impositions and it might take citizens kicking the carp out of politicians for two or three or maybe four really painful elections with society at each other's throats in the meantime. And, that's if it can even be unwound. Think Brexit was divisive? We ain't seen nothing yet and this time it will be young, fit, unvaccinated taxpayers living hand to mouth in rented accommodation who will be telling politicians what they want to do to the Boomers to strip their assets in return for votes.

Unless vaccines are the exit strategy we have to accept that we will have our life increasingly curtailed by dictates with increasingly opaque and baseless reasons.

If vaccines are the exit strategy we have to accept that they work and start giving up all these impositions, from masks to terms of entry.

Let's take another aspect of these Passports. How do you feel about the undocumented people in our society who can't get one? There might be a million of those people, maybe more and none of them can get a legitimate Covid Passport because they need to be registered with a GP and despite various open-door policies and amnesties they just aren't. Now you might not care that they (supposedly) can't get into Twickenham (although the Wembley farce says otherwise) but you might care that they are in your great aunt's home as her daily carer because they got the job using a bunch of easily faked paperwork with an employer that doesn't look too closely. It's just another of the gaping holes in this massive Swiss cheese.

In other news, my earlier hunch that cases will be down in a couple of weeks is looking like a reasonable bet right now. Let's hope so.
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#1860673
"Italy brings in Covid certificate amid spike in infections .. will allow those aged 12 and over who have received at least one jab to access a range of venues, including indoor restaurants, cinemas and gyms..., the pass will not be needed for transport."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57937722
#1860675
Australia: NSW Premier wants greater Federal allocation of Pfizer vaccine; Sydney GPs confused about local distribution:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-23/ ... /100317702

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-23/ ... /100318692

Sydney spread continues; supermarkets identified as likely infection locations:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-23/ ... /100317006

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-23/ ... /100316066
#1860680
eltonioni wrote:
In other news, my earlier hunch that cases will be down in a couple of weeks is looking like a reasonable bet right now. Let's hope so.

I really hope you are right, but my hunch is that maybe people are testing (and/or reporting) themselves less because of the implications on them and their contacts of a positive. We are also only at Day 4 of Freedom so next week might be when it starts to show, especially given my BP M&S experience with 50% not wearing masks (I get your feeling about mask effectiveness but it shows a general "It's all over" feeling).
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1860684
The stupid, stubborn and awkward always seem to take that as if it somehow makes them special, which it does, but not in the way they see it :roll:

At the moment I've seen more people I know self isolating in the last week than in the previous 18 months, make of that what you will.
Cessna571 liked this
#1860689
malcolmfrost wrote:
eltonioni wrote:
In other news, my earlier hunch that cases will be down in a couple of weeks is looking like a reasonable bet right now. Let's hope so.

I really hope you are right, but my hunch is that maybe people are testing (and/or reporting) themselves less because of the implications on them and their contacts of a positive.

It's certainly a massive Horlicks.

As of yesterday, Mrs E's GP practice has 4 of 12 reception staff pinged and off work without pay. It's causing huge problems and one more ping means they will probably have to close the doors. They have a massive advantage over most firms because they all PCR test weekly and they know nobody has C19 - they have only had a handful of positives throughout despite being absolute frontline. But they are still on the knife-edge of 12k patients having no GP.

If that is the best end of the spectrum from both an employee and employer POV, it's not hard to understand why people are removing or ignoring the app. It's not sustainable and it's not reasonable to expect people to comply, so they won't.


johnm wrote:The stupid, stubborn and awkward always seem to take that as if it somehow makes them special, which it does, but not in the way they see it :roll:

At the moment I've seen more people I know self isolating in the last week than in the previous 18 months, make of that what you will.

Maybe, as a one off, have a go at seeing it their way instead of yours.
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#1860706
Dear old @eltonioni, why do you have to keep banging on about an exit strategy? I pointed out 280 odd pages ago that that was meaningless twaddle. You can't have an exit strategy, you might as well start a petition to ban cancer. Of course we would all want it but it wouldn't make any sense.

COVID, like many other infectious diseases, is something we must live with and manage. Hopefully, one day, we will have managed it well enough that the impact will be minimal, as we have with so many other things. The bubonic plague still exists it just doesn't wipe out a quarter of the population now.

There is not an exit strategy, there are ways to manage it. Your search for the impossible may be one of the reasons for your rather confused reasoning regarding the measures designed to do that.
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#1860708
JAFO wrote:Dear old @eltonioni, why do you have to keep banging on about an exit strategy? I pointed out 280 odd pages ago that that was meaningless twaddle. You can't have an exit strategy, you might as well start a petition to ban cancer. Of course we would all want it but it wouldn't make any sense.

COVID, like many other infectious diseases, is something we must live with...

^^^ there is your exit strategy.




Edit: NOW IT'S GETTING SERIOUS!!!! Won't somebody think of the children!!

Beer delivery drivers and warehouse staff are to decide whether or not to strike over pay and Covid measures.

Some 1,000 employees of XPO Logistics Drinks are being balloted for industrial action by Unite the union over a “paltry” pay offer.

The workers are based at 26 sites across the country and are responsible for around 40% of UK beer deliveries, leading the union to warn of beer shortages this summers.


https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Art ... =copyright
flybymike liked this
#1860717
eltonioni wrote:
JAFO wrote:Dear old @eltonioni, why do you have to keep banging on about an exit strategy? I pointed out 280 odd pages ago that that was meaningless twaddle. You can't have an exit strategy, you might as well start a petition to ban cancer. Of course we would all want it but it wouldn't make any sense.

COVID, like many other infectious diseases, is something we must live with...

^^^ there is your exit strategy.


Come on, you're having a laugh, surely?

Me: Hello, can you show me the way to the exit?
Shop assistant: Certainly sir, you now have to live within the shop.
Me: Thank you, most helpful.

Living with it is not an exit strategy. There is no exit strategy, it is part of our life for the foreseeable future. If more people realised this rather than hoping that what was normality would return or rejoicing over freedom day or blubbing over masks being a slight inconvenience or believing they really were at terrible risk by taking the very vaccine that would protect them from the real risk or making up nonsensical tin-hattery about the government, the sooner we would be able to move on.
johnm, MikeB liked this
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1860719
JAFO wrote:Living with it is not an exit strategy. There is no exit strategy, it is part of our life for the foreseeable future. If more people realised this...... the sooner we would be able to move on.

Indeed, and if they also realised that this pandemic is a dress rehearsal for the next one, which could be as transmissible as Covid-19 but as lethal as MERS, we'd be less likely still to have our global heads in the sand when it arrives.

We've screwed up the dress rehearsal. It's the actual performance next, yet the production crew and all the cast are still just running around and mucking about.

All this whining "But muh liberty..." just does my head in.
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By flybymike
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1860769
I have seen more folk I know isolating and living with it in the last 3 weeks than in the last 2 years, so this is not over by a long chalk.


You saw folk you know self isolating two years ago?


At the moment I've seen more people I know self isolating in the last week than in the previous 18 months, make of that what you will.


:roll:
#1860825
So it turns out that leaving the kids in school and testing them instead of sending entire bubbles into lockdown after one catches covid results in four percent fewer cases.

Fancy that.
flybymike liked this
#1860829
Australia: summary, including: more Pfizer doses on the way to NSW after Premier's plea; anti-lockdown protests in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne; sewage testing reveals new infection areas in Victoria:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-24/ ... /100319672
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-57952516

NSW Police set up 'strike force' to trace Sydney protesters:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-24/ ... /100320620

Federal vaccine advisory body says all adults in Sydney area should 'strongly consider' accepting AZ (not yet Federal nor NSW governments' policy, but a notable change of tone):

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-24/ ... /100321056
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