For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1905502
Flyingfemme wrote:Building anything is unlikely to make any difference if you have no staff to use it. ...


It does not help attract staff into public service jobs (or staying in them) when we have large sections of press and social media, quite a few politicians, and even sometimes their own political masters, abusing them for alleged incompetence, laziness, being overpaid or overpensioned, .. sometimes it takes a senior representative of one such profession to remind the public of the often unsung efforts and achievements of another:

"Health chief praises teachers dealing with virus spike

A health chief has praised teachers for the way they are coping with rising cases of coronavirus.

Cumbria's director of public health, Colin Cox said teachers were "exhausted" but doing their best to keep schools open... "


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england/cumb ... type=share
MikeB, Newfy, T6Harvard liked this
#1905574
As a health care professional for 50 years and a school governor for 30, I know what Covid did to disrupt normality.
The speed of response, the need for innovation , the acceptance of the challenge and the eagle-like focus on their patients/pupils well-being is not understood by so many.
Patient care/pupil education suffered, not due to staff, sometimes due to dreadful central government grasp of priority, usually it was the sheer scale of the pandemic, and the need to learn many, many new ways of working,
.
A no one was furloughed.
MikeB, kanga, T6Harvard liked this
#1905580
Jim Jones wrote: due to dreadful central government grasp of priority


Surely, central government had the VERY best advisors* that the nation could provide and those expert advisors had an iron grip on their priotities?

Absolutely understand why we individuals might be upset day today, but the Government isn't comprised of scientists and sociologists so they can only take the advice they are given and put it into action. If we're going to "blame" somebody, it's the advisors.




* obviously I've been saying that they were useless since Brexit, but...
flybymike liked this
#1905656
eltonioni wrote:.. the Government isn't comprised of scientists and sociologists so they can only take the advice they are given and put it into action. If we're going to "blame" somebody, it's the advisors...


Is it not the role of Ministers rather to seek sources of advice (which may conflict), to hear it/them, and to make judgements about which (if any) to put into action ?

<slightly pertinent, I hope, Classicist drift :oops: >

It was timely that Melvyn Bragg's "In our time" last Thursday was on Sophocles' "Antigone":

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0015lwj

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigone#Antigone

In an article in Saturday's "Times", A N Wilson points out that stagings of the play (in faithful but nuanced translation) have frequently in modern times been used, with actors in carefully chosen costumes and using pointed mannerisms and accents, 'safely' to satirise political leaders in ways unmistakeable to their audiences. These production have included ones in Occupied France, on Robben Island (by the inmates) and the Gdansk shipyard. At its core is the tragedy brought upon himself, and by extension on his society, of the arrogance of King Creon. The messenger who brings word of the final (off stage) tragic nemesis to the Chorus (and thus to the audience) defines the 'worst evil among mortal men' as ἀβουλία aboulia [a], which (cognate of βουλή, meaning "will") can be translated as any of 'ill-advisedness, want of advice, thoughtlessness'. The point was that Creon had received sound advice and warning (embodied in that from the blind seer Tiresias, who had also advised Oedipus, who had also ignored him), but chose to follow other advice which suited his own arrogance better. Wilson was (explicitly, and unsurprisingly) drawing an analogy with Putin (and the very recent departure of his hitherto loyal adviser Chubais). How current UK Ministers (and their advisers, and the extent to which Ministers heeded which of them) will be judged I suppose we'll have to leave to future analysts. I hope these include some Classicists. :?

</>

[a] not quite the same as, but the etymon of, the modern psychiatric definition of abulia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abulia
Mz Hedy, eltonioni liked this
#1905660
More "it's not all over" from English [sic] health professionals:

"NHS in Somerset 'more' stretched than before vaccine rollout"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-60911335

[matron at the Critical Care Unit in Yeovil citing ITU bed occupancy, sickness rates among staff; medical director of Acute Hospitals in Somerset cting cancellation of operations, discharges prevented by lack of social care provision]

" 'Critical incident' declared as Covid patient numbers soar" [Shropshire]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-s ... e-60919872

[again, staff sickness in hospitals and GP practices; lack of social care provisions]
T6Harvard liked this
#1906066
kanga wrote:
eltonioni wrote:.. the Government isn't comprised of scientists and sociologists so they can only take the advice they are given and put it into action. If we're going to "blame" somebody, it's the advisors...


Is it not the role of Ministers rather to seek sources of advice (which may conflict), to hear it/them, and to make judgements about which (if any) to put into action ?

I admire your optimism K. If only the Civil Service et al would comply.

kanga wrote:<slightly pertinent, I hope, Classicist drift :oops: >

It was timely that Melvyn Bragg's "In our time" last Thursday was on Sophocles' "Antigone":

Always pertinent K, and perhaps her father's vanity is just as pertinent.
#1906137
eltonioni wrote:
kanga wrote:
eltonioni wrote:... If we're going to "blame" somebody, it's the advisors...


Is it not the role of Ministers rather to seek sources of advice (which may conflict), to hear it/them, and to make judgements about which (if any) to put into action ?


I admire your optimism K. If only the Civil Service et al would comply.


I was addressing the posting specifically about 'advisers'. However, once the Minister has sought (or not) and heeded (or not) and (with or without other pertinent Ministers' agreement) decided (unambiguously or not) what policy should now be (or that it should remain unchanged), it is up to Civil Servants or (as mentioned above, increasingly) the 'et al' to implement. Increasingly in recent decades, the 'et al' has included arms length Agencies or outsourced Contractors, neither constrained as CSs are by Treasury codes of conduct, budget controls, and overarching threat of criminal prosecution for 'misconduct in public office'. Such might be incurred for failing to accept lowest bidder, even if coming from a tenderer with a poor track record on delivery, or one which has been put onto a favoured list by a Minister, or even one which has suddenly sprung into being, eg:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... m-60940877

"Immensa: Why were Covid test errors at Wolverhampton lab not stopped sooner?"

(of very local pertinence here in Gloucestershire).

Obviously, however, it is easy and tempting always to blame 'Civil Servants', as press and social media (and increasingly, on and off the record, Ministers) commonly do, ignoring the 'et al'. And, of course, in the NHS, the vast majority of 'implementers' have not been CSs for decades.

eltonioni wrote:
kanga wrote:.. Sophocles' "Antigone":


.. perhaps her father's vanity is just as pertinent.


Indeed. As the Messenger said, the core of Creon's tragedy was his arrogant failure to heed or even seek advice. This is poignantly true to some of us on the 40th anniversary of the initial military phase of the Falklands :(
eltonioni liked this
#1906140
I wouldn't blame a civil servant per se, more the entire Tower of Babel that they (et al ;) ) have devised and built.

It is, ultimately, as always, for every government since Solomon got his chopper out, a procurement issue.
User avatar
By stevelup
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1906382
I think it's about time the NHS was completely privatised. Still make it free at the point of use, but let private companies run it. All of it. From top to bottom.

I think service levels would be improved in 25 months let alone 25 years... We are just throwing an insane amount of money into an ever growing hole.

I'm retreating into my bunker now. Someone let me know when it's safe to come out.
eltonioni liked this
#1906544
Jim Jones wrote:Full electronic notes available to all approved providers.
That’ll be easy .


That exists already, but not all GP’s use it.

Also, would you believe it, when you are asked “this will be shared, ok?”

There are people that say “No”!

GDPR and all that int it.
#1906551
@Cessna571 They will be the same people who won't tell receptionists why they want to see a doctor/nurse because "it's private" as if the receptionist hasn't got their entire medical records up on screen. :lol:
User avatar
By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1906580
eltonioni wrote:@Cessna571 They will be the same people who won't tell receptionists why they want to see a doctor/nurse because "it's private" as if the receptionist hasn't got their entire medical records up on screen. :lol:


You laugh... but it used to be the case for a few years that at our local doctors surgury, the doctors secretary would sit in front of a waiting room full of people and answer the phone LOUDLY asking what someone wanted to see the doctor about and then proceed to quiz them about it and their history - I repeat, LOUDLY in front of a waiting room full of people... She would get most upset if you refused to answer and you could pretty much guarantee a delay in your appointment...
#1906582
@skydriller :D arguing with receptionists is one thing, but don't even think about upsetting the secretary, they have real power! Mrs E happens to be a doctor's secretary and for some reason she happens to have the tannoy microphone on her desk.

The other day she sent me this:
Image

The reference:
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