[eltonioni]

At the risk of straying on to infertile ground, do expressions like covidiots and cretins do anyone any favours?

Just indicates to me a rather unpleasant mindset of individuals using them and is reflective of the Brexit polarisation, polarisation which has of course served the country well

Not at all and you are absolutely right. I suppose I was trying to be ironic with inspiration from the last four hundred pages.

[Miscellaneous]

The human race isn’t doing very well really

[Paultheparaglider]

Here is the short version of @Miscellaneous 's video...

[johnm]

20% of hospital admissions for COVID19 are now unvaccinated 18 to 34 year olds apparently

[eltonioni]

20% of hospital admissions for COVID19 are now unvaccinated 18 to 34 year olds apparently

So what‽

[Miscellaneous]

@johnm I'm more worried about there being 80% who have been vaccinated.

[johnm]

@johnm I'm more worried about there being 80% who have been vaccinated.

Non sequitur

[JAFO]

20% of hospital admissions for COVID19 are now unvaccinated 18 to 34 year olds apparently

So what‽

So what cause for hospital admission, other than trauma, is made up of 18-34 year olds?

[eltonioni]

20% of hospital admissions for COVID19 are now unvaccinated 18 to 34 year olds apparently

So what‽

So what cause for hospital admission, other than trauma, is made up of 18-34 year olds?

Dunno JAFO, just presumed that there was more to add to the statement, perhaps something like this;

71% had Hypertension (which of course may indicate other unseen problems)
48% had Diabetes mellitus
32% were BMI>30
32% had Chronic renal failure
28% had Ischemic heart disease
27% had Congestive heart failure
24% had Chronic lung disease
24% had Cancer
19% had Dementia
5% had Chronic liver disease
40% had Immunosuppression issues

Some had multiples of the above but importantly only 4% of admissions had no known comorbidities.

... or something else.

[JAFO]

Precisely my point, @eltonioni - those are things which normally cause hospital admission and those are not things which a high proportion of 18-34 year olds tend to suffer from.

20% of 18-34 do not have Ischemic heart disease
20% of 18-34 do not have Diabetes mellitus
20% of 18-34 do not have Chronic lung disease
20% of 18-34 do not have Dementia
20% of 18-34 do not have Chronic liver disease
20% of 18-34 do not have Congestive heart failure
20% of 18-34 do not have Chronic renal failure

Yet, 20% of those unwell enough to be admitted to hospital with coronavirus are 18-34 year olds.

[eltonioni]

Not sure that you've got a complete grip on either the maths or the implications there JAFO. And "...unwell enough to be admitted to hospital with coronavirus"? Nah, not according to the data available. There's still at least a quarter who test positive after going in and young people have comorbidities too.

The simple truths that fit healthy people, young or old, are not going into hospital with C19. The 42 yo that's all over the news at the moment is being reported like a plane crash because the exceptions are proving the rule and the data supports it.


In other news:
Lockdowns aren't working all over the world and vaccines are the only exit strategy apart from letting it run its course. Happily, the virus is doing what they all do and is becoming more fecund and less dangerous as it mutates its way through the standard evolutionary path.

[johnm]

Just to clarify 20% of those admitted to hospital because of COVID-19 are unvaccinated 18 to 34 year olds which suggests that age group as well as others would be wise to get vaccinated. Very few vaccinated folk end up in hospital

[eltonioni]

@johnm very few people end up in hospital at all. What you will see more and more is vaccinated people being admitted and it's quite possible / likely that the lines on the graph will cross soon. Cases are certainly headed that way, the last report I saw was that around half of cases have had at least one dose and a goodly proportion have had a full dose.

While vaccination is certainly sensible, the health imperative for the 18-34 group is much, much less compelling than for the over 65s and I suspect that the antibody count among the unvaccinated is much, much higher than in the unvaccinated older age groups. These factors combined means that I personally have a lot of sympathy with young people who are concerned about possible long term side effects around general health and fertility in particular.

As for vaccinating children who are at almost zero personal risk (ISTR it's <1 in 2 million) so that they can provide a super marginal gain for vaccinated adults with comorbidities - well that's an idea that really stinks and has more to do with political gains than health gains. I'd like to think that you'd agree with me.

[Paultheparaglider]

@johnm I'm more worried about there being 80% who have been vaccinated.

Non sequitur

This is an important point.

Further, in theory, if everybody was vaccinated, the percentage of hospital admissions with (not necessarily due to) covid would be 100%. However, the absolute number would be small due to vaccine effectiveness, and also the chance of dying will be much reduced.

Even with everyone vaccinated, there can remain an infected pool as the vaccine is not 100% effective, and due to imported cases from a largely still unvaccinated world.

If the unvaccinated group is mainly younger people, then although their risk of hospitalisation is much lower than unvaccinated older groups, the effectiveness of vaccination at some point produces a risk crossover and they will make up a higher proportion of admissions, but again with a lower absolute number.

These numbers need to be interpreted with care.

[JAFO]

The simple truths that fit healthy people, young or old, are not going into hospital with C19.

Yes they are.

It seems to be you who is failing or refusing to get a grip on the facts.

Fit and healthy people are catching coronavirus and ending up in hospital due to that. I know of some personally. Also, young, fit and healthy people are catching coronavirus and are suffering from life limiting symptoms for many months - some still with no idea of when or if they will fully recover.