For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1810138
No you are not, and no doubt humanity would 'get over' this virus too. However that would be at a huge humanitarian and economical cost and the powers that are have (I think rightly) decided that managing with lock down/vaccine is the way forward.
TopCat liked this
#1810190
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:No you are not, and no doubt humanity would 'get over' this virus too. However that would be at a huge humanitarian and economical cost and the powers that are have (I think rightly) decided that managing with lock down/vaccine is the way forward.


Putting niceties to one side, when the average age of death due covid is +82 I don't see how there would be an economic cost to humanity. More likely the opposite.
flybymike liked this
#1810194
That is because you (like we all do by default) look at the issue, of the elderly death people, from your own perspective.

If you didn't you wouldn't.

Not only is the average age, the average, just that. There is also the small matter of these people being ill for prolonged periods of time and they need/get pretty intensive care whilst they are sick and not getting better and I think we all have not got a clue what the pandemic would look like if it was truly unbridled ravaging through society.

We can see Stateside what happens if half the population does what it likes; it ain't pretty, add to that the exponential result if the other half did nothing to reduce transmission either.
#1810253
@Flyin'Dutch' I prefaced by putting niceties to one side FD, you're quite rightly seeing it as a doctor whose job it is to be nice to sick people by means of lockdowns and vaccines. If we didn't do either (I'm not suggesting it BTW) humanity will 'get over' this virus just fine. It won't even be a hiccup in history and will be all but forgotten in fifty years.

I'm just old enough to remember people in iron lungs but nobody cares a jot about polio victims, same for cholera, smallpox, AIDS even. A hundred million died in the most terrible ways to political ideologies within living memory and it's just a footnote to history that's not even a school subject any more. We all end up dead sooner or later and no matter how clever / loved / admired / kind / etc we were, Humanity just moves on and forgets us. We're not special, we're just here.
#1810262
Cholera is not an issue in the 'civilised' world anymore as only those in developing countries suffer and die from it; it may not matter to many here but it is a massive problem with enormous economic and personal costs to the populations affected:

Cholera is an acute diarrhoeal disease that can kill within hours if left untreated. Researchers have estimated that each year there are 1.3 million to 4.0 million cases of cholera, and 21 000 to 143 000 deaths worldwide due to cholera


Smallpox - eradicated by vaccinating people

AIDS - very effectively bridled by a combination of medication and prevention; rumours of curative treatment and life expectancy of sufferers now very close to non-infected people.

As I said in an earlier post - these things may all matter very little to most 'over here' but they are big issues for those affected and their societies.

It depends on your own reference framework.

I personally think there are no problems in the construction industry - you may have a different opinion ;)

Let's hope this pandemic is quickly under control so that only sad gits working in the health service have to worry their little heads about medical suffering.
kanga liked this
#1810291
'Humanity' will get over this pandemic in much the same way that 'The Planet' will get over climate change. Both will survive. No one is claiming that it's an existential threat.

As one that still experiences the after effects, 8 months after a fairly mild brush with (what I'm pretty sure was) Covid-19, I'm not one to generalise.
#1810299
@Flyin'Dutch' don't disagree with anything you wrote there. It is all about our own perspective, but I do maintain (and we agree) that humanity will get over it. Very quickly too I reckon.

@johnm your chart has something missing - zero risk of transmission. There is sleight of hand involved in presuming that there is always a risk and that sleight of hand is used to manipulate.

Outside > not busy > ventilated > silent = zero risk with or without face coverings. Much of the rest of that graph is as close to zero as to be zero too.
#1810301
eltonioni wrote:Much of the rest of that graph is as close to zero as to be zero too.


Not quite.

It is my personal professional observation that once it is a community it goes quick and many people get infected in a short period of time.

It is also rare that if one member of a family is infected for the rest of them not to be.
#1810303
@Flyin'Dutch' Sorry FD, I can't let you have that one because it is exactly the sleight of hand I referred to. The graph describes risk conditions, not what people do before or after in completely different conditions.

The idea that somebody has a low risk of contracting Covid outside > not busy > ventilated > silent with a mask is risible. It's nothing short of homoeopathic miasma led fearmongering.
#1810309
eltonioni wrote:@Flyin'Dutch' Sorry FD, I can't let you have that one because it is exactly the sleight of hand I referred to. The graph describes risk conditions, not what people do before or after in completely different conditions.

The idea that somebody has a low risk of contracting Covid outside > not busy > ventilated > silent with a mask is risible. It's nothing short of homoeopathic miasma led fearmongering.


My post was a response to 'the risk is zero' inter alia, in all situations. That blatantly is not true, we know from the data available and I also have experience that not being correct.

That the risk outside is virtually nil is something I thoroughly agree with you.

The wearing of masks outside is imo not necessary and I don't wear one, other then were mandated by law. 1. Because I don't like breaking the law and 2. Whilst I can't be bothered to argue the toss.
eltonioni liked this
#1810313
As a courtesy to others I wear a face covering at the market as do many others, though by no means all. The risk is relatively low, as we know, but keeping the requisite 2 metres apart is pretty much impossible and there's a fair bit of chatter going on :D
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