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Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 am
by Paultheparaglider
MikeB wrote:
Presumably the Officer was following UK.Gov website lockdown "guidance", which says:

You should minimise time spent outside your home, but you can leave your home to exercise. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
(my bold)


As you might know, Mike, we have been told in Wales that we can go out to exercise as many times as we want.

I suspect our Assembly are hoping to build a nation of superfit Welsh stormtroopers with a view to invading England via the Severn bridges once things deteriorate on the other side to a critical point.

Welsh as a first language will be a requirement before the year end, brawd.

Keep that to yourself, though. For now. :wink:

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:07 pm
by kanga
A4 Pacific wrote:..

Two individuals refused to give their details whilst one gave details which could not be confirmed. (False?)

They were invited to the station for further discussion/enquiries....


AIUI, from various news reports, individuals refused to give details of name and address on the spot, which I believe is an arrestable offence, so they were. This was duly filmed and posted on social media, by bystanders organised by the same social media to be there and witness the arrest. At the police station the individuals readily gave details (presumably unfilmed!) and they were promptly released. To me, clearly, a stunt :evil:

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:15 pm
by JAFO
@kanga

From gov.uk:

Stop and question: police powers
A police officer might stop you and ask:

what your name is
what you’re doing in the area
where you’re going
You don’t have to stop or answer any questions. If you don’t and there’s no other reason to suspect you, then this alone can’t be used as a reason to search or arrest you.


AIUI, they must have reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence before they can demand your details, only then does failing to provide them become an offence.

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:20 pm
by kanga
JAFO wrote:@kanga

From gov.uk:

Stop and question: police powers
A police officer might stop you and ask:
..
You don’t have to stop or answer any questions. If you don’t and there’s no other reason to suspect you, then this alone can’t be used as a reason to search or arrest you.


AIUI, they must have reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence before they can demand your details, only then does failing to provide them become an offence.


ah, thanks. But a gathering apparently in defiance of the Law [sic; ie not merely 'guidance'] might raise reasonable suspicion of an offence .. ? IANAL .. (nor a Constable)

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:10 pm
by flybymike
There are so many restrictions around legitimate mass protest that it has now effectively become impossible.

I could post scores of examples of appalling police behaviour on here, but I get enough stick as a fairly lone voice on our inexplicable voluntary surrender of liberty, so confine myself to the most egregious examples.

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:37 pm
by flybymike
From today’s Times.:

Nadhim Zahawi urged people not to sit on park benches when they go out for their daily exercise. Speaking to Times Radio, the vaccine minister said there were limited reasons for being allowed outside but people must not “go out and sit or have that opportunity of social interaction because you’re helping the virus”.


Presumably angina, asthma and arthritis sufferers are not allowed to have a rest, and wheelchair and mobility scooter users are condemned to indoors only

A further quote added,

Police officers will be asked to emphasise that the exemption in the rules that allows people to go out for exercise once a day must not be misused, another government source has said.


:roll:

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:47 pm
by eltonioni
If they are going to restrict the most basic liberties the least we should expect is some evidence that being outdoors is a serious transmission risk.

Otherwise we could be forgiven for thinking that they are making it up as they go along so we don't notice that 20k people went into a hospital for something not Covid and left feet first with a note saying cause of death Covid.

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:52 pm
by Jim Jones
eltonioni wrote:If they are going to restrict the most basic liberties the least we should expect is some evidence that being outdoors is a serious transmission risk.

Otherwise we could be forgiven for thinking that they are making it up as they go along so we don't notice that 20k people went into a hospital for something not Covid and left feet first with a note saying cause of death Covid.


Here we go again . How else would you measure it?
Have you seen the excess numbers in ITU and the excess total deaths.? How do you account for it?

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:59 pm
by eltonioni
Maybe read it again Jim.

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:38 pm
by Jim Jones
Oops. Stick: wrong end of.

Not sure what alternative to going to hospital when seriously unwell there is. But asymptotic transmission is the devil in this whole thing ☹️

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:42 pm
by Paul_Sengupta
flybymike wrote:Presumably angina, asthma and arthritis sufferers are not allowed to have a rest, and wheelchair and mobility scooter users are condemned to indoors only


The wheelchair/mobility scooter thing doesn't follow as they have exclusive use of their seating facilities and aren't sharing them with other people.

flybymike wrote:There are so many restrictions around legitimate mass protest that it has now effectively become impossible.


Protests should be reserved for when this whole Covid thing is over. To gather when there's a pandemic is stupidity itself.

flybymike wrote:I could post scores of examples of appalling police behaviour on here


Why not post it? Police abuse of power is not related to:

flybymike wrote:our inexplicable voluntary surrender of liberty


It's not really inexplicable. In fact, it's easily explained, we're in the middle of a pandemic.

I believe by this:

eltonioni wrote:Otherwise we could be forgiven for thinking that they are making it up as they go along so we don't notice that 20k people went into a hospital for something not Covid and left feet first with a note saying cause of death Covid.


eltonioni means people who have caught it and died in hospitals. One of my family friends went into hospital, caught it there and died. My father wasn't tested post mortem so wasn't attributed to a Covid death, but he died suddenly in hospital while preparations were being made for him to come home.

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:30 pm
by PeteSpencer
flybymike wrote:From today’s Times.:

Nadhim Zahawi urged people not to sit on park benches when they go out for their daily exercise. Speaking to Times Radio, the vaccine minister said there were limited reasons for being allowed outside but people must not “go out and sit or have that opportunity of social interaction because you’re helping the virus”.


Presumably angina, asthma and arthritis sufferers are not allowed to have a rest, and wheelchair and mobility scooter users are condemned to indoors only


:roll:


Have they dropped the notion that Covid can survive for a variable periods (supposedly up to 72 hours) on certain hard/inanimate surfaces?

A nice juicy flob from a covid sufferer/carrier could possibly find its way onto the park bench........................ :wink:

And thence to an unsuspecting punter.

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:32 pm
by skydriller
Paul_Sengupta wrote:flybymike wrote:
There are so many restrictions around legitimate mass protest that it has now effectively become impossible.

Protests should be reserved for when this whole Covid thing is over. To gather when there's a pandemic is stupidity itself.


There were alot of protests around the UK at the end of the last lockdown in support of another cause which were "allowed to go ahead" so the law has been selectively applied. But the thing is, these "Protests" are outside, so of more importance, presumably if they were hotbeds of infection we would know about it by now? Similarly the "packed beaches" that the media made such a fuss about last year.

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:45 pm
by johnm
The key issue remains that physical separation is the critical parameter in getting the spread of the virus under control. It follows that real protest gatherings are not on at the moment so bombarding with email and other electronic means needs to be considered

Re: Covid 19. Rev1 NO Cause for optimism.

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:17 pm
by flybymike
Have they dropped the notion that Covid can survive for a variable periods (supposedly up to 72 hours) on certain hard/inanimate surfaces?


Better tape off all the door handles, railings, bollards, lamp posts, shop counters and any other hard surface a hapless victim might come into contact with.
Me, I can sit on a park bench wiv me hands in me pockets, and spot a good flob from a mile away. :!: