For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By Rob P
#1781342
The issue with hydrogen / fuel cell motive power is the complex infrastructure required, none of which exists today, and the vast amounts of electricity needed to produce it. Once all our electricity is from nuclear / renewables it will be a huge step forward in pollution reduction

Aviation is probably better placed than motoring to benefit as the limited number of airfields also means that we can get by with much less infrastucture construction.

The fuel tanks will be heavy, but then again, so are batteries.

Rob P
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By Bill McCarthy
#1781349
Rhinos are no longer charging at Landrovers in Africa - everybody gets about in their Toyota Landcruisers.
Landrover Defenders go to the crusher in the USA.
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By johnm
#1781449
I don't think a UK firm has built a decent car properly since WW2 unless it's been under the banner of an overseas car company prepared to make serious investment.

This was brought home to me when I had a 1980s Jaguar XJ-S alongside a 1997 XJ-6 built in the period after Ford had taken control. The XJ-S looked like it had been built by a couple of blokes in a shed the XJ6 looked like something from a proper factory.

XJ-S constantly being fiddled with (by me as a bit of a hobby) to keep it going. XJ-6 240,000 miles of trouble free motoring all over Europe
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By eltonioni
#1781460
Ineos is a UK company, as are Aston Martin, McLaren, Lotus, Rolls Royce, Caterham, Bentley, Morgan. They all have reps for making decent cars, as do Jaguar which as you say, also builds decent cars. Despite appearances the Grenadier isn’t a Land Rover so it also has a good chance of being a decent car.

I quite like the approach they are taking by not treating it like a workaday common-as-muck decent car and having a stab at making something desirable that gets people excited as well as doing the job it’s designed for. Since we’re not discussing the new Nissan Joke it looks like Ineos have made a decent start with their new UK car venture.
By johnm
#1781461
eltonioni wrote:Ineos is a UK company, as are Aston Martin, McLaren, Lotus, Rolls Royce, Caterham, Bentley, Morgan.
.



The point I was making is underlined here:

Aston Martin sorted out by Ford and sold on to an investment consortium
McClaren low volume highly specialised, something the UK is undoubtedly good at in a range of technologies.
Lotus controlled by a Chinese company
Rolls Royce owned by BMW
Bentley owned by Volkswagen
Caterham niche to put it mildly and owned by Malaysian entrepreneurs
Morgan niche also and owned by an investment company after being sold by the family
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By Rob P
#1781466
Why is it important who 'owns' the company?

British factory, British workforce, by and large British design (as can be seen in many 'foreign' marques)

The little islander thing is an anachronism.

Rob P
By johnm
#1781470
Rob P wrote:Why is it important who 'owns' the company?

British factory, British workforce, by and large British design (as can be seen in many 'foreign' marques)

The little islander thing is an anachronism.

Rob P


It's partly the history, there has been almost no worthwhile indigenous investment in the car industry since WW2 so our skills are dependent entirely on foreign investment. Foreign investment is by no means a bad thing of itself but it comes with control and that's a bit more of an issue. I'd like to see more indigenous investment in industry and more international partnerships where the UK is on an equal footing on decision making when it comes to things like whether we make Minis in Oxford or Rotterdam, currently that's a decision made in Munich.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1781479
In good times it doesn't matter who owns a particular plant; in bad times big international organisations contract to their base.
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By eltonioni
#1781489
johnm wrote:
eltonioni wrote:Ineos is a UK company, as are Aston Martin, McLaren, Lotus, Rolls Royce, Caterham, Bentley, Morgan.
.



The point I was making is underlined here:

Aston Martin sorted out by Ford and sold on to an investment consortium
McClaren low volume highly specialised, something the UK is undoubtedly good at in a range of technologies.
Lotus controlled by a Chinese company
Rolls Royce owned by BMW
Bentley owned by Volkswagen
Caterham niche to put it mildly and owned by Malaysian entrepreneurs
Morgan niche also and owned by an investment company after being sold by the family


Rob nailed it, you’re so parochial John :lol: It really isn’t underlined at all.

In any case, companies are owned by shareholders, not themselves and definitely not countries. Shares have no domicile as my megre Ford shareholding will attest... and ISTR bought at a time when the CEO was British.
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By eltonioni
#1781491
johnm wrote:It's partly the history, there has been almost no worthwhile indigenous investment in the car industry since WW2 so our skills are dependent entirely on foreign investment. Foreign investment is by no means a bad thing of itself but it comes with control and that's a bit more of an issue. I'd like to see more indigenous investment in industry and more international partnerships where the UK is on an equal footing on decision making when it comes to things like whether we make Minis in Oxford or Rotterdam, currently that's a decision made in Munich.

You’ll be buying an Ineos Grenadier then! A UK enterprise through and through. Heck, it’s even been thought up in that greatest of British institutions, a pub, itself named after another. You’ll be ordering the red white and blue Union Jack edition no doubt. :thumleft:
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By Genghis the Engineer
#1781498
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:In good times it doesn't matter who owns a particular plant; in bad times big international organisations contract to their base.


Well, contract. The Nissan Barcelona workers who are losing their jobs to Nissan Sunderland right now, aren't seeing contracting to a Japanese base. Multinationals lose all loyalty to anything but themselves by and large. They'll move their base if it suits them at the drop of a hat.

G
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1781527
@Genghis the Engineer without straying into politics it is not possible to comment further on the Nissan moves. Suffice to say, we will see.
By johnm
#1781539
I like comfy practical cars and I don't think Jim Ratcliffe needs me to fund his hobbies......
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By nallen
#1781951
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1781956
Interesting development; and that COVID is the apparent reason for the potential change of venue..