For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By Flintstone
#1674650
Chris Martyr wrote:
stevelup wrote:What if you were already in the left hand lane.


Precisely !
If you are already in the LH lane and some clueless oaf is 'cruising' down the middle lane with his brain in neutral ; what is the safest option ?

He is hardly likely to make a knee-jerk manoeuvre into the inside lane is he ?



Although it's amazing how many actually twitch as I pass them in 'my' lane, the one in which the traffic (me) is moving quicker. Clearly they've no idea who is near them, approaching, maintaining a distance...any of it.

I just drove home via the M25 which was practically empty. Three or four sets of up to half a dozen cars bimbling along at about 60mph in lane 2 with absolutely no other traffic in any other lane. They're like sheep, one does it so they follow.

And...AND.....speeds. Roadworks, lane closures so reduced speed limits. Or sections of smart motorway with the time/distance cameras on them. Why do people drop to the imposed limit BUT STAY IN THE OUTSIDE LANE?! Are the others strewn with anti-vehicle mines or caltrops or something? Either move over or at least accelerate to the actual limit (as any fule no, car speedos under-read and no Sengupta, this is not where you post a picture of a pair of budgie smugglers). Enough of us have satnav devices depicting speed, it's like IAS/TAS, clueless bunch.

I'm going for a lie down.
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By T67M
#1674651
I think adaptive cruise control also has a part to play, especially when cars in lane 2 accelerate to block a vehicle overtaking them because the vehicle they were following has just pulled into lane 1.

Then again, I also think automatic headlights, auto main beam, auto wipers and auto brake lights are more of a curse than a benefit too. They all make your job as a driver slightly easier, but they also make you less attentive, and can make the life of those driving near you much harder.
By Bill Haddow
#1674657
I think some of the roots of this problem lie in the relatively recent practice of drivers on motorways / high speed dual carriageways moving out from the inside lane when they see traffic trying to join. This has resulted in many drivers joining without trying to merge in, they just assume that traffic on the high speed road will move out to accommodate them.

This in turn seems to have led to less confident drivers abandoning the inside lane, 'cos its too scary, and bimbling along at sub speed-limit pace in the middle lane instead. (In my admittedly limited observation, this is more prevalent with the girls, tho' the guys are also represented.) A lot of these drivers seem unaware that HGVs are not permitted in the outside lane and slow down even more when they see a heavy up their chuff :roll: .

Urban stretches are particularly bad because of the number of junctions close together. At times the M74 northbound from Cambuslang to Tradeston looks as if it has 2 lanes plus 2 hard shoulders.

I think its more a case for education than prosecution.

Bill H
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By GolfHotel
#1674692
T67M wrote:I think adaptive cruise control also has a part to play, especially when cars in lane 2 accelerate to block a vehicle overtaking them because the vehicle they were following has just pulled into lane 1.

Then again, I also think automatic headlights, auto main beam, auto wipers and auto brake lights are more of a curse than a benefit too. They all make your job as a driver slightly easier, but they also make you less attentive, and can make the life of those driving near you much harder.


i find my auto wipers are a real curse to those driving around me. one day the car in front crashed when my wipers unexpectedly cleaned the rain of my screen. dreadful!

the only thing worse are the automatic brake lights. how am i supposed to brake without letting the car behind know! I ask you how unnecessary.

on a slightly more serious note. one day the car in front did get very upset as we drove under some trees and my headlights came on automatically. Muppet.


P.S. :D no offence intended Mr67. :D just joshing
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By Ridders
#1674697
Rob P wrote:Paul I'd suggest the scenario here could be car in lane three on cruise control and CBA to override it, car in lane two either being a pillock and matching the overtaker's speed, or doing so subconsciously.

Rob P
I get this a lot it seems, A23/M23/M25/M3 are my main routes. I try to anticipate the Lane2 moron speeding up as I overtake them on cruise, there is usually a hill involved.

The M23 roadworks are horrendous at the moment, narrower lanes, so I often see:
    People drifting over the white lines unable to stay in their lane
    Last second lane changes from Lane 3 to 1 at the exits, seems no one can plan
    The southbound left lane north of Gatwick, is a Gatwick exit only. The signs are particularly poor - so people realise last second and cut over at the slip exit. I see this all the time and anticipate now.
    People that dont realise its average speed cameras - so either speeding well over 50 - or amusingly slowing down as they go past one of the many cameras :lol:
    Tailgating lorries - generally not HGVs, but light trucks seem to commonly do this
#1785963
This might just make motorway driving through road works a little bit less frustrating. Highways England has announced that following 'extensive trials' the majority of 50 mph restrictions at roadworks will be raised to 60 mph. Reductions in frustration, journey time, and tailgating have been cited as benefits that may come from the move.

A lot of tailgating by HGV's is caused by their drivers maintaining speed on the 'speed limiter', set at 56mph, behind more cautious car drivers who often tend to adhere more closely to camera enforced temporary limits. Anecdotally, many HGV drivers continue 'on the limiter' in the belief that they are just under the prosecution guideline of +10% +2mph.

Certainly, the M23 is very frustrating at the moment, the 'Smart Motorway' improvements appear to be complete (north of Gatwick all the way up to the M25) which now provides 4 running lanes in both directions all heald back at 50 mph.

There's no indication as to when the increase will become effective, there's a lot of signage to be changed!
Last edited by avtur3 on Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
By johnm
#1785965
M4 is a similar pain in the proverbial and closed most weekends for bridge works at the moment. The work will run through to 2022 apparently.

I was in London yesterday taking my son back to Brixton and doing some DIY in his flat. Mask wearing seems to be gaining traction in shops and some have screens on the counters,

Traffic levels are coming back to normal as well.
#1786010
avtur3 wrote:A lot of tailgating by HGV's is caused by their drivers maintaining speed on the 'speed limiter', set at 56mph, behind more cautious car drivers who often tend to adhere more closely to camera enforced temporary limits. Anecdotally, many HGV drivers continue 'on the limiter' in the belief that they are just under the prosecution guideline of +10% +2mph.

HGVs have much more accurate speedos (not the swimming variety).
Cars mostly over-read by design. So cars doing exactly '50' are doing only 46-47. Nervous drivers erring on the low side of 48 are only doing 44-45.
(there are drivers out there who think the national speed limit is 50mph (my brother did after 20 years of driving). I get mad at the snowflake drivers doing 45 in a 60 limit just in case :furious: :wall: )
Paul_Sengupta liked this
#1786012
avtur3 wrote:...Certainly, the M23 is very frustrating at the moment, the 'Smart Motorway' improvements appear to be complete (north of Gatwick all the way up to the M25) which now provides 4 running lanes in both directions all heald back at 50 mph.

There's no indication as to when the increase will become effective, there's a lot of signage to be changed!
The start of the restrictions Northbound are interesting* as they have closed the Crawley Ind estate exit northbound. The 50 starts just past the Worth onslip, It’s down to 50mph with ‘fixed’ ground standing metal signs. Then they have some variable signs, ground standing that are usually 50 but last week they went to 40 mid works!. all this when passing average speed sensors. It was quite a shock that the 50 became 40 past the exit... then it went back to 50. Lots of people passing me that hadn’t noticed.

Then the exit and short section from M23 to the airport is currently 40... with average speed sensors.

I don’t think they are long from having this lot opened as when they finish the Crawley Nbound off slip there isn’t much more looking unfinished.

*probably not
#1786172
Glad you said variable topic, Bill! Although I do get to the subject of motorways eventually :D

My pet hate lately (well OK, one of the many) is dweebs who drive at 36 mph on the good A road I commute on. It has a multi-signed 50mph limit.

I KNOW a limit is not a target, Officer, but 36 flippin' miles per flippin' hour in a 50 area?? This happens most days! It is a reasonable road, only 2 junctions in 4 miles, both light-controlled. Very few houses. No other 'difficulties' and yet there are people driving along it at far less than 40mph. It is the only road I have ever driven on where the average speed is (so far) below the limit. No, there are no speed cameras along it.

Oh, and btw, when changing lanes, on the MOTORWAY I challenge myself to drive all wheels through the gaps between cats eyes, not going over any. Am I the only (weirdo) person who does this?
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By Miscellaneous
#1786180
Bill Haddow wrote:I think its more a case for education than prosecution.

I agree, however worry that it is a task beyond reach. :shock:

Generally I've suggested the standard of driving is atrocious in terms of spacial awareness. Specifically there is an inability to overtake, a pet annoyance. More ridiculous, but a source of amusement rather than annoyance, is the inability to move out and pass a car that is slowing to turn left. Invariably arriving at the airfield I signal in plenty time that I am turning left off the 60mph road and noting there is nothing coming in the opposite direction I am bemused at the number of cars behind that slow, at times only accelerating when I am clear. Never even seems to enter their head to move across and pass. :lol:

I have a theory that much of the lacking in driving competence is masked by the fact there is so much traffic. :D
By johnm
#1786181
Everyone should be limited to 50 MPH and required to sport a “P” plate until they have passed the equivalent of the IAM test
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