Page 8 of 10

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:20 pm
by riverrock
stevelup wrote:That is absolutely ridiculous. I thought we had the monopoly on absurd rules here...

In Northern ireland, 24% of accidents are with drivers who are under 24, with most of those accidents being on rural roads so there has been a very long term push to reduce that. I believe in the rest of the UK about 15% of accidents are with teenage drivers (I can't see comparable stats for under 24s). I heard there is a trial, or planned trial, of Graduated driver Licences in Northern Ireland (https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/lear ... -licences/ with restrictions such as driving at night and the number of (young) passengers) which may then spread across the rest of the UK if the trial works.

It does force you to not get frustrated when people are constantly over taking you and motorways are generally quieter in NI than the rest of the UK. There was really only 2 motorways when I learnt to drive in NI (though). When I was learning to drive, the rules were that R-Drivers weren't allowed on motorways - I guess that changed or was clarified at some stage.
I do find when I return to NI that people do generally drive more slowly than the rest of the UK. Probably better for everyone.

I can see why people think it might be dangerous - but as far as I know there haven't been any accidents attributed to people getting frustrated behind slow R-Drivers. If you end up with a long queue behind you - you get used to pulling over and letting people past. Good training for when you tow a caravan :twisted:

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:59 am
by johnm
Off to London today so more practice in the 50 mph section on the M4 :-(

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:16 am
by eltonioni
Boxkite wrote:
Paul_Sengupta wrote:I welcome the change to 60mph, I've thought for a long time it would make things both better and safer, due to lack of frustration. I've experienced where they've trialled it and it seems to work well.

I am all for going faster, but, even at the real 52mph, those temporary lanes can be really narrow, and it can be a bit bottom-clenching squeezing between a truck in the middle lane, held up by someone cruising at an indicated 48mph, and the temporary metal/concrete median.


Nay, come on lad, you're not telling us that you can't get a six foot wide vehicle along a ten foot tarmac stripe at sixty mph, but you can put a thirty five foot wide vehicle onto a forty foot wide tarmac stripe at sixty knots. :pirat:

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:00 am
by Bill Haddow
HOBBY-HORSE ALERT ON

As often, we are discussing the symptoms, not the problem. When a road should really be 3 lanes in each direction, we build it with 2 lanes. These lanes get hammered by having about 50% more traffic on them so require maintenance more frequently. The road is now down to 1 lane, trying to cope with 3 lanes' worth of vehicles. The results are easily predicted without sophisticated computer modelling.

HOBBY-HORSE ALERT OFF

Bill H

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:11 am
by johnm
You can model high density traffic using fluid mechanics [/geek]

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:19 am
by Bill Haddow
johnm wrote:You can model high density traffic using fluid mechanics [/geek]


Which is basically an application of Hardy Cross

Bill H

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:58 am
by eltonioni
The difference between traffic and fluids is that traffic expands to fill the available space, like a gas.

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:01 am
by johnm
eltonioni wrote:The difference between traffic and fluids is that traffic expands to fill the available space, like a gas.


Indeed there is anecdotal evidence in some places, but fluid dynamics only works once it has reached the point where all lanes are very nearly full as individual vehicles start to behave like molecules in a fluid, with eddies, waves and the like.

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:03 am
by eltonioni
Build a three lane road and you will soon need a four lane road, just as dual lane roads used to be one lane, and a road with one lane in each direction used to be, err, a lane where you budged over to pass.

We really can't go on building bigger roads.

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:14 am
by riverrock
I'm still waiting for the road trains appearing - where lots of vehicles attach themselves to the one in front to improve energy efficiency, road utilisation and make the drive more relaxing (as only the front person needs to drive).
So long as all can brake at the speed of the slowest braker (so a super-mini isn't trying to stop a 30 foot lorry) then it should be easy.

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:29 am
by VRB_20kt
...unless such a road train is trundling along the inside lane when you want to exit the motorway. It's why army convoys have a flag on the first and last vehicles I believe - so that you can gauge your exit strategy.

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:08 pm
by Paul_Sengupta
Bill Haddow wrote:Which is basically an application of Hardy Cross


Is that in Bedfordshire?

eltonioni wrote:Build a three lane road and you will soon need a four lane road,


Only because of the idiots who don't know how to drive. You can put in as many lanes as you like and there will always be idiots who drive in lane n-1 at 64mph with nothing to their left.

In fact, on the 4 and 5 lane sections of the M1, you can have the whole motorway doing 50-66mph, with lane 1 being empty. You can happily drive at 70 in lane 1, going past everyone who's in "queues" in the other lanes. Happens a fair bit on the M25 as well.

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:30 pm
by seanxair
For anyone who would like to play at traffic management look here :)

https://traffic-simulation.de/

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:12 pm
by skydriller
VRB_20kt wrote:I recall reading that some significant fraction of all speeding offences cited overtaking as a reason.


Yep, last time I was stopped by the Gendarmes it was overtaking someone, the guy said I went to 108km/hr on a 90km/hr limit road. I pointed out that the car I was overtaking was doing 75km/hr and that I definitely slowed back down once safely past. The gendarme agreed this was true, did a gallic shrug and said " boff...think of it as a tax??...the limit is 90...." :lol:

I remember thinking that this approach was waaay more honest than the last time I was stopped in the UK and had a 20 minute safety lecture... :roll:

Regards, SD..

Re: Motorway driving

PostPosted:Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:26 pm
by Bill McCarthy
On the A9, Inverness to Perth road, there are yellow vultures everywhere to keep speeds within the 60mph limit. However, there are overtaking lanes at some locations along the way and drivers seem to think that the 60 limit does not apply and often are well over 80 to get ahead, only to pull in again behind that crawling lorry when the facility runs out.