FLYER Club Member
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:26 pm
#1674624
I take it your degree isn't in engineering then...? 
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:13 pm
#1674637
I was educated and trained simultaneously. Not possible unless, as in my case, the future employer contributed directly to my skill development.
Frequently misunderstood
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:09 am
#1674644
The purpose of education, as I understand it, is Legally defined as "to every child according to their needs
The primary need of all persons without outside support, is to earn a living in order to support themselves. The "market" is flooded with Buskers, Artists, singers, jugglers etc, out on the streets, there are vast numbers of "resting" actors, many of whom "fill-in" with low-grade jobs. Most students in these "soft" degree- courses are deluded into believing that they winn be the next Beyonce , Picasso/Segovia/famous and wealthy artistic type. It is a sad and cruel disillusionment when the truth strikes that there is a vast pool of similarly, often better, talented folk who are unemployed and not equipped to earn a living! Why should employers pay to train an employee, without imposing "golden handcuffs" in order to get their capital-investment back and make a return? They're a business, not an educational establishment!
Eldest son went to Uni....First year, half were sadly lacking in literacy and numeracy, his tutors (computing) were so far behind the curve, he left after persevering for 6 months. During that time, he continued to work part-time for his school "work-experience" placing. (they pleaded with him to stay, as he knew more than any of their staff...yes, self- taught
Younger son just skipped the Uni bit altogether.....blagged his own first job in IT, and 6 months later he was left in charge of that ISP, whilst the Boss took his first holiday since starting the company several years prior.
Middle child (daughter) did Masters and Doctorate (Particle- Physics , designed computer- chips for Cern) She was horrified in first couple of terms, many peers had never had a paper-round or Saturday-job, couldn't budget, didn't have any concept of shopping within a budget, couldn't cook, clean, operate a washing-machine......apparently, ~ 20% left after that first term, education system and parents all failed them and destined them to be perpetual dependant children.
Recreational "occupation" training is fine, if the cash and time are there, but the ability to support oneself and develop an adult relationship is a far more important priority.. Today's snowflakes need to understand that their parents will not be there to spoon-feed them forever. there's a big, hard world out there and they will have to grow up and become part of it.
Some brave souls risk huge debt, work their socks off and eventually become Commercial Pilots, they can then earn lots, buy big watches and wear lots of gold braid round their cuffs
They earned it! Even the Nigels, subsidised by bank of mum and dad, have to have the ability and the work-ethic ,to complete the course and get the licence. you can't just get daddy to buy one!
The primary need of all persons without outside support, is to earn a living in order to support themselves. The "market" is flooded with Buskers, Artists, singers, jugglers etc, out on the streets, there are vast numbers of "resting" actors, many of whom "fill-in" with low-grade jobs. Most students in these "soft" degree- courses are deluded into believing that they winn be the next Beyonce , Picasso/Segovia/famous and wealthy artistic type. It is a sad and cruel disillusionment when the truth strikes that there is a vast pool of similarly, often better, talented folk who are unemployed and not equipped to earn a living! Why should employers pay to train an employee, without imposing "golden handcuffs" in order to get their capital-investment back and make a return? They're a business, not an educational establishment!
Eldest son went to Uni....First year, half were sadly lacking in literacy and numeracy, his tutors (computing) were so far behind the curve, he left after persevering for 6 months. During that time, he continued to work part-time for his school "work-experience" placing. (they pleaded with him to stay, as he knew more than any of their staff...yes, self- taught
Younger son just skipped the Uni bit altogether.....blagged his own first job in IT, and 6 months later he was left in charge of that ISP, whilst the Boss took his first holiday since starting the company several years prior.
Middle child (daughter) did Masters and Doctorate (Particle- Physics , designed computer- chips for Cern) She was horrified in first couple of terms, many peers had never had a paper-round or Saturday-job, couldn't budget, didn't have any concept of shopping within a budget, couldn't cook, clean, operate a washing-machine......apparently, ~ 20% left after that first term, education system and parents all failed them and destined them to be perpetual dependant children.
Recreational "occupation" training is fine, if the cash and time are there, but the ability to support oneself and develop an adult relationship is a far more important priority.. Today's snowflakes need to understand that their parents will not be there to spoon-feed them forever. there's a big, hard world out there and they will have to grow up and become part of it.
Some brave souls risk huge debt, work their socks off and eventually become Commercial Pilots, they can then earn lots, buy big watches and wear lots of gold braid round their cuffs
They earned it! Even the Nigels, subsidised by bank of mum and dad, have to have the ability and the work-ethic ,to complete the course and get the licence. you can't just get daddy to buy one!
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:47 am
#1674653
johnm wrote:ANY society that starts to classify knowledge as essential or not ceases to be able to claim to be civilised, the U.K. is teetering on the edge of things worse than Brexit.....
John, any society that stops classifying knowledge as essential or not will soon enough discover that lotus-eaters don't last long in the big bad world.
Bill H
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:15 am
#1674663
I was at Cambridge for a short while, though not as an academic.
I well remember having a debate with a staffer from a research council who was looking at the implications of govt policy seeking to measure the impact of research, to prioritise funding.
My point was that if we know the impact it’s not research it’s development.
Any civilised country must support the thirst for knowledge and the emotional expression that comes with the joy of art and music.
However @Jim Jones is quite right that we should draw a clear distinction between education and training and that we should educate before we train.
In this context I have also pointed out to some that Educate comes from the Latin which basically means “I lead out” not “I stuff in”
I well remember having a debate with a staffer from a research council who was looking at the implications of govt policy seeking to measure the impact of research, to prioritise funding.
My point was that if we know the impact it’s not research it’s development.
Any civilised country must support the thirst for knowledge and the emotional expression that comes with the joy of art and music.
However @Jim Jones is quite right that we should draw a clear distinction between education and training and that we should educate before we train.
In this context I have also pointed out to some that Educate comes from the Latin which basically means “I lead out” not “I stuff in”
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John Milner Fairly tolerant PPL/IR flying a TB 20 from Gloucestershire and Flyer Club member