Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

Moderator: Flyin'Dutch'

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By eltonioni
#1674100
The northern east coast ports have plenty of capacity (Grimsby & Immingham is already the UK's largest freight port by a large measure), no dredging needed, no extra ramps needed, no new customs infrastructure needed, no Operation Stack.

The only thing that's needed is a political willingness to realign the UK economy away from the South East.

On a related note it's looking like HS2 is going to be cancelled just after valuable London real around Euston has been reclaimed, repurposed and remediated.

No news yet about the equally out of control Crossrail 2, but I'm sure that cancellation is only days away. :whistle:
User avatar
By Flying_john
#1674118
We’ve been told that planes won’t be able to fly to Europe, that cancer patients will die and diabetic insulin-users won’t get their medication, we’ll run out of sandwiches and cheese, and now we might even lose our Christmas turkeys.

So it’s nice to hear that the British Ports Chief has shot down the scare stories surrounding a No Deal Brexit.

In the Telegraph, the Chief Executive of the UK's Major Ports Group has denied claims that British ports would see a six-month logjam in the event of No Deal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2018/12/08/lettersthe-uks-ports-will-not-seize-no-deal-brexit-whatever/
By johnm
#1674121
Flying_john wrote:We’ve been told that planes won’t be able to fly to Europe, that cancer patients will die and diabetic insulin-users won’t get their medication, we’ll run out of sandwiches and cheese, and now we might even lose our Christmas turkeys.

So it’s nice to hear that the British Ports Chief has shot down the scare stories surrounding a No Deal Brexit.

In the Telegraph, the Chief Executive of the UK's Major Ports Group has denied claims that British ports would see a six-month logjam in the event of No Deal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2018/12/08/lettersthe-uks-ports-will-not-seize-no-deal-brexit-whatever/


All the “ scare stories “ are practical risks of no deal, simply because if we renege on a whole bunch of agreements without replacing them we enter limbo and no-one really knows what happens next. In order to reduce those risks a great deal of planning and organisation is needed and that is going on. We have no idea as yet whether enough of it will have been done to avoid major problems.
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By eltonioni
#1674123
johnm wrote:
Flying_john wrote:We’ve been told that planes won’t be able to fly to Europe, that cancer patients will die and diabetic insulin-users won’t get their medication, we’ll run out of sandwiches and cheese, and now we might even lose our Christmas turkeys.

So it’s nice to hear that the British Ports Chief has shot down the scare stories surrounding a No Deal Brexit.

In the Telegraph, the Chief Executive of the UK's Major Ports Group has denied claims that British ports would see a six-month logjam in the event of No Deal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2018/12/08/lettersthe-uks-ports-will-not-seize-no-deal-brexit-whatever/


All the “ scare stories “ are practical risks of no deal, simply because if we renege on a whole bunch of agreements without replacing them we enter limbo and no-one really knows what happens next. In order to reduce those risks a great deal of planning and organisation is needed and that is going on. We have no idea as yet whether enough of it will have been done to avoid major problems.

The "expert" for the TA that runs the ports says his bit is fine, and they have headroom for more. Trust that we can put that one to bed for now, and ignore the political hysterics?

If anyone is worried about Dover I'd like to recommend the excellent ferry that runs from Hull in Yorkshire (where they do excellent Yorkshire fish and chips) to Zeebrugge in Belgium (where they do excellent Yorkshire mussels and frites)
User avatar
By Rob P
#1674125
eltonioni wrote: Trust that we can put that one to bed for now, and ignore the political hysterics?


You may have just set a new high bar for optimism :lol:

Rob P
By johnm
#1674128
I’m sure that the man who runs the ports is making a sensible statement that he has his end of the risks under control. That begs a few questions:

Do the hauliers know?
Have the hauliers re-arranged their routing?
Are the receiving and sending ports across the channel geared up for a change in traffic patterns?

They might be OK but I don’t know.

I’m tired of hearing practical risks described as scare stories and I’m tired of hearing that just because one set of risks has been mitigated all the problems have magically disappeared.
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By Flying_john
#1674194
But in saying that JohnM you assume that everyone else is sitting on their collective **** (derrieres) doing nothing, this is just not true of any reasonable business or business man. They are NOT sitting idly by just waiting for someone to phone them on April the 1st to let them, the hauliers know , nor are they waiting until then to look at alternative routings, nor are ports operators sitting in their offices chewing their nails worrying about a change in traffic patterns. Its others pontificating and actively seeking out perceived problems that are not real, scaremongering and perpetuating horror stories, when the majority of us are fully prepared and are clever enough not to sit on our laurels and wait for this tidal wave of awfulness to arrive on the shore like an unprepared for tsunami.

We are Great Britain and regardless of remain or leave I recommend you watch and listen to this oration by an MEP;-




Lets get on with it, get Britain back to being a great country again before being swallowed by all this eurononsense from a failing trading group of nations and their arrogent unelected eurocrats and if those still remoaning , I say stop it and go and find something useful to do to smooth the path.
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By kanga
#1674196
romille wrote:The level of naivety and incompetence of our politicians and civil servants is utterly staggering, ...


hmm.. ISTR reading that the Minister claimed that 'officials had done due diligence'. No doubt this will be investigated by the Public Accounts etc Committees. Officials, of course, will be constrained by the rules that they do not criticise Ministers even in Committee hearings, and do not Release documents containing 'advice to Ministers' even to Committees. Ministers are in theory bound by a convention that they do not criticise officials, in Committee hearings or in public, but that convention has been rather often flouted recently. Of course, Ministers under pressure have given 'off the record' briefings to friendly journalists in which they blame errors on the incompetence of their officials, who cannot answer back. No doubt some sort of truth will eventually emerge. Recent PAC investigations have been quite effectively probing.

Obviously, CEOs of major public companies, often given taxpayer's money to achieve governmental goals to deliver public policy goals in the name of the 'greater efficiency of the private sector', would never obscure truths or deflect blame onto subordinates in this way, nor gag their employees with Non-Disclosure Agreements .. :roll:
Last edited by kanga on Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Flying_john
#1674206
Aha from Stephen McNair that well known agitator and propagandist who tries to stimulate others to accept without challenge his own assertions, making use of slogans and symbols.

In this case the symbol is a concrete representation of an idea, action, or thing - a sign that stands for something.... A symbol can be a word, a mark, an object, a song, a flag, an image, a picture, a statue, or some collective group representation to try and force an idealistic viewpoint on someone with an opposite view.

Luckily most can see through this sheep mentality !
By johnm
#1674209
@Flying_john I assume nothing, unlike a great many Brexiters. Great Britain is a geographical term not a description of a fading imperial power with delusions amongst some of its political class and aged citizens.

I know that a great deal of effort is being expended on damage limitation when the Brexit strap line was about cutting chains and roaring of into the dawn of opportunity, no-one is spending effort on opportunity because they are still searching for one.

If we leave with no deal on the 29th March the campaign for rejoin will start on the 30th. If we leave with the basis of a sensible damage limitation arrangement such as Maydeal in place then that will probably be acceptable to most people.
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By Flying_john
#1674215
I assume nothing


and yet you say things like :-

Do the hauliers know?
Have the hauliers re-arranged their routing?
Are the receiving and sending ports across the channel geared up for a change in traffic patterns?

With questionmarks at the end implying that you assume they are not doing the things you mark as questions.

Are they rhetorical perhaps - I suspect not, they are questions you ask in order to imply that your assumptions that the hauliers and ports (in this case) are doing nothing.

Or is it more remoaner scaremongering - c'mon lets just let things run their course and get on with it. Constant argument from entrenched positions will not change anyone's mind. Its just a pointless exercise now. Just save it for after March 31st when you can blame every little thing that is then wrong on "not being in the EU"
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By FlightDek
#1674221
Flying_john wrote:We are Great Britain


No we aren't. We are "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Some people like using "Great Britain" as a name in the sense of "significant importance". However it just means the largest of the British Isles.

Dek
From Norn Irn :thumleft:
By johnm
#1674225
Just save it for after March 31st when you can blame every little thing that is then wrong on "not being in the EU"


That is just as fatuous as Brexiters blaming home grown problems on the EU.

The issue is all about the degree to which intelligent damage limitation planning can be achieved in the time available.

That implies a challenging level of co-ordination and my set of questions was simply to point out that because one piece of the jigsaw is solid and in position we can’t just assume that the puzzle is magically solved.

I have no doubt lots of outfits are trying to make the best they can out of this pointless shambles and Ferrygate is an example of political incompetence in the process. Grayling was trying to pretend there was a U.K. ferry company who could help and all he’s done is remind everyone that there isn’t :roll: