[Colonel Panic]

Ordinarily 10% (never less), but if only using notes the tip would be too "lumpy" for my comfort.

[avtur3]

In our previous life 'oop north' we had a good choice of dining pubs, plus Indian, Italian and Chinese restaurants all within walking distance, which meant we never had to worry about a designated driver, that being the case the evenings were usually well lubricated! Typically that would result in about £50 per couple, for drinks and food; yes we had friends and a social life back then. We always paid for the meals and drinks on a tab by card but we'd make sure that one of us had a 'blue back' to leave as a tip given directly to the waiting staff. so, £50 + £5 (10%) per couple.

Since moving, 7 months ago, there is only one pub within walking distance, we've been twice, so not enough experience to see what the trend might be here. It is pay as you go for food and drink which means there is no single bill to tip against. The pub is OK but doesn't have the atmosphere we're used to, it's also it very child-friendly, which is good for those with kids, but we're a bit past that stage in life.

[rikur_]

That's two now that have indicated they only tip coins.

It has to be asked; at what level does a tip become an insult?

For good service but not outstanding, I'd normally tip 10% ... for outstanding I'd round up to the nearest note.
Pub lunch for two with drinks and coffees ~£35, personally I'd be unlikely to tip more than £5.
In practice I rarely see a £5 note - I seem to be lucky if the cashpoint gives out smaller than £20s, and as I rarely use cash these rarely get broken into anything smaller. Just checking the bank statement now, I haven't been to a cashpoint since 18th Dec which was to get £30 for a taxi as I'd only got £20s ... the last 'general' withdrawal for no specific purpose was 11th Dec, all but £10 of which is still in my wallet.
I used to use the change machines at Network Rail toilets to break a £20 .... but these have gone now the toilets are free.

[Bill Haddow]

It is most instructive to look at the implications of the various taxes involved.

Let us say that the waiter is on minimum wage, and his employer, a lady with a social conscience and well aware of the affluence of those who can afford to eat in pubs, decides he should have an extra £5 in his pocket. To allow for PAYE and Employee's NIC, she actually has to pay him £7-35 gross for him to get £5 nett. Then of course there is the matter of Employer's NIC which adds another £1-01 bringing the cost to the business up to £8-36. For the business to recover this £8-36 from its customers, she has to increase the prices, but of course VAT at 20% has to be added, so the cost to the customer is now £10-03.

Yup, for you to pay that guy a fiver extra through the legitimate payroll system, you would need to pay another £5-03 to the Chancellor.

No wonder there is a black economy. No wonder the hospitality sector has low wages and relies on tips.

Bill H

[cockney steve]

^^^^^^^^^ Not to mention that , even if you do tip, the greedy taxman will take a cut. He'll try to tax the employee on "notional" tips expected in the industry..... pity the poor waitress/waiter who's education/intellect does not allow them to challenge Mr. Revenue's tithe. Then there's the Tronc.....where all tips are pooled and distributed among the staff....Is it organised by Management, or collectively by staff?

Yep, Taxman has his finger in that pie.....Much as we may resent the tipping- system, it's really the only way of tax-efficient dining-out. (different rules for takeaways, don't even start on whether hot food is VAT-liable! )

[JoeC]

It is most instructive to look at the implications of the various taxes involved.

Let us say that the waiter is on minimum wage, and his employer, a lady with a social conscience and well aware of the affluence of those who can afford to eat in pubs, decides he should have an extra £5 in his pocket. To allow for PAYE and Employee's NIC, she actually has to pay him £7-35 gross for him to get £5 nett. Then of course there is the matter of Employer's NIC which adds another £1-01 bringing the cost to the business up to £8-36. For the business to recover this £8-36 from its customers, she has to increase the prices, but of course VAT at 20% has to be added, so the cost to the customer is now £10-03.

Yup, for you to pay that guy a fiver extra through the legitimate payroll system, you would need to pay another £5-03 to the Chancellor.

No wonder there is a black economy. No wonder the hospitality sector has low wages and relies on tips.

Bill H

So the employer wants to pay the employee more at no cost to the employer?

Your logic is flawed.

What you should have said is that the employer wants to pay the employee more at the expense of the customer.

I think that your employers ‘social conscience’ may not actually exist. Have you been advising Tory chancellors?

[TheFarmer]

I’m with Misc on this.

If the service is good, I tip.

If it’s not, I don’t. And if it needs taking off the bill I will, and I’ll tell them why.

[TheFarmer]

Oh, and why should a chef being paid £50k share a couple of quid with a student waiter or waitress who have to put up with idiots moaning about the chef.?

[PaulB]

Well made point, but do chefs earn that much?



https://www.caterer.com/salary-checker/ ... hef-salary

My take is that staff should be paid enough to live on and then we could tip for service that goes above and beyond just doing their job.

[tomshep]

There is enough money in the British economy to pay everybody enough to live on

[PaulB]

There is enough money in the British economy to pay everybody enough to live on

There’s enough money to do lots of things that ought to be done, but choices are made to do other things instead.

[Bill Haddow]

So the employer wants to pay the employee more at no cost to the employer?

Perfectly laudable aim, I would have thought. But, hey ho, if you want to look at it the other way round then the arithmetic is the same and reducing the employee's nett wage by £5 would lead to a price drop to the customer of £10-03

Your logic is flawed.

Don't think so - care to point out the logical flaw ?

What you should have said is that the employer wants to pay the employee more at the expense of the customer.

Joe, that is pretty much what I did say when I referred to the customers as "affluent"

The whole thrust of my post is the large impact (particularly in the service sector) that various taxes, including the "forgotten" taxes of Employees' and Employers' NICs, have on the price charged to the customer.

Bill H

[JoeC]

Understood. My point was that often it is more affordable for all parties if the employer takes the hit (or at least part of it) rather than the customer. That would be really socially conscious. Low paid workers such as in Amazon, Tesco’s, sainsburies et al have their low wages already subsidised by the taxpayer. The employers have enough casheroo to pay dividends but not it appears to pay wages that don’t require additional housing or child benefit. This is the reality and one of the greatest outrages of the UK today

[PaulB]

As a country, we could afford to do lots of things that we choose not to do and almost always blame the poor or disadvantaged for being, well, poor and disadvantaged.

[Dodo]

My take on the original question.

In a UK pub, if I order food at the bar and pay before getting the food served then no tip. If I order at a table and get brought the bill to pay at the table then I treat it like a restaurant and leave 10 percent unless it clearly says service included in the bill, or if the food and/or service were absolutely awful.

2 of my kids have had waitressing jobs and dealing with the public at minimum wage is a bit grim so I don't begrudge the tips.