[chevvron]

I believe a government tried to ban the sale of this type of knife years ago but abandoned this plan, can't remember why but maybe it's time to look at such a ban again.

I think, chevvron, you may find carrying of any knife without legitimate purpose is illegal.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

I specifically said 'the sale' not 'the carrying'.

[PaulB]

A quick Google finds this. The bold is mine.

In the year ending March 2018, there were around 40,100 (selected) offences involving a knife or sharp instrument in England and Wales. This is the highest number in the eight-year series (from year ending March 2011) the earliest point for which comparable data are available. This is directly related with improvements in recording practices.

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... ry/SN04304

The report goes on to say that London has the highest incidence 126 per 100,000 population and Surrey the lowest (5 per 100,000) (2016/17 figures). Does that fit with endemic?

[romille]

I have a sailing knife on my aircraft keys which normally live in the boot of my car. The blade has a rounded end so is only useful for cutting, not stabbing but I do worry what a copper might make of the marlin spike on the back of it. Many people have a legitimate reasons for carrying a small knife so banning all knives would clearly not work.

[riverrock]

Rates in Scotland have halved.
Its not impossible.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691

[cockney steve]

I remember flick-knives being banned. No self-respecting "Teddy Boy" would go out without one !
(they were predominantly used to slash Cinema-seats (presumably they didn't like sitting comfortably? )

Tune: teddy bear's picnic singers, kids in the early 60's

" If you go down to the woods today,
be sure to go in disguise.

In drainpipe jeans, with a "bird", it seems,
And winklepickers I'd advise,

Don't bother to wash, it's going to rain,
all you need is a cosh and a bicycle chain
'Cos today's the day the Teddy Boys have their picnic."

now saved here for posterity!

As society as a whole has lost it's sense of values, morals and ethics, it seems the way forward is to junk the present largely useless point-scoring education-system and instead start programming the young to accept that to live in a civilised society a level of conformity is required of them. Parenting- classes, as their own parents haven't a clue, therefore can't pass on any worthwhile skills in that department. and realistic expectations of work and career prospects.

Many kids , I feel, leave school expecting to wear a suit and tie, tap a keyboard all day and attend meetings at posh restaurants, driven there in the back of a limo.
carting pallet-trucks of goods round a warehouse doesn't even figure on their teachers' radar, but that sort of job is the reality for many.
The cream will quickly rise to the surface...Yes! give them aspirations and dreams. but why go through the charade of wasting 11 or so years of a child's formative years feeding them a load of irrelevant, illusory rubbish.
If our elected rulers do not step in, we'll simply breed continuing feral generations of futureparents who abrogate all responsibility.

[Bill Haddow]

minimum unit pricing for alcohol
. . .

depoliticise policing.

Think that will do the trick.

I quite agree there are many factors to be addressed. A couple of observations:

Knife crime in Scotland has actually been decreasing.

Minimum pricing for alcohol in Scotland has not reduced the amount of alcohol sold, apparently.

Oddly enough one piece of politicising does seem to have helped - some years back the Scottish Government decreed that persons charged with carrying a knife were to remain in police custody until their first court appearance*, and this does seem to have had a deterrent effect.

(* no bail had been the de facto practice in some areas, but not all)

Bill H

[Mike Tango]

As I understand it, overall the UK is a safer place to live now than at any time in its history, but promoting that particular narrative doesn’t sell tomorrow’s fish and chip wrapping and the like.

[romille]

The problem appears to be much greater in London than the rest of England and Wales, statistics suggest there are almost 140 offences per 100k of population in London, which is more than twice as many in the next highest area at just over 60 offences.

[rikur_]

Not sure how true it is, but several times I've heard the view that the volume of crime is predominantly linked to the state of society, and how it manifests itself is linked to the state of opportunity and prevention.
Fraudsters move from printing bank notes to cyber crime; bank robbers move from armed hold-ups to stealing cash machines in the dead of night; petty thieves move from car stereos to mobile phones ..... some of these cause less 'stress' to society (a stolen cash machine is probably preferable to an armed hold up), others cause more stress (having your phone stolen at knife point, is more traumatic than returning to a broken car window).

[chevvron]

The problem appears to be much greater in London than the rest of England and Wales, statistics suggest there are almost 140 offences per 100k of population in London, which is more than twice as many in the next highest area at just over 60 offences.

I'm seriously considering if I ever go to London again, (now that Arsenal have upgraded me from Red membership to Silver) I may invest in a stab - proof vest.

[rikur_]

The problem appears to be much greater in London than the rest of England and Wales, statistics suggest there are almost 140 offences per 100k of population in London, which is more than twice as many in the next highest area at just over 60 offences.

Remember that the number of people in London is usually much larger than its population
(not as extreme as it used to be, but still significant - particularly for central London (e.g. City of London has a population of ~ 12,000, but around 400,000 people there each day))

[Mike Tango]

I'm seriously considering if I ever go to London again, (now that Arsenal have upgraded me from Red membership to Silver) I may invest in a stab - proof vest.

Might I suggest you just stop going, then I’ll have a slightly better chance of a seat on the train or tube

[chevvron]

I'm seriously considering if I ever go to London again, (now that Arsenal have upgraded me from Red membership to Silver) I may invest in a stab - proof vest.

Might I suggest you just stop going, then I’ll have a slightly better chance of a seat on the train or tube

We don't use the tube; SWR from Sunningdale to Richmond then Overground to Highbury and Islington; always plenty of empty seats on those routes

[johnm]

One factor we've seen in Bristol and I'm guessing London and the Southeast may also have this issue, is failures in care in the community.

We used to have mental health hospitals and they were very run down and rather than update them we closed them and relied on mentally ill people to live among us having carefully taken their medication as prescribed

It's not a huge impact in knife crime terms but is noticeable and I guess there is a bigger population of miserable folk and suicides that we don't really hear about....

[JAFO]

Better education, better socio-economic circumstances, improving quality of life, starting at the economically disadvantaged, better healthcare, closing the social divide, encouraging social cohesion, reducing the number of disenfranchised people, justice reform, prison reform, doing away with short sentences for some drug offences, decriminalise some drug use, legalise and manage some drug use, improving access to drug rehabilitation projects, minimum unit pricing for alcohol, investing in people and deprived areas, pay for more police, allow proper policing, depoliticise policing.

Think that will do the trick.

Me old Dutch, you've hit the nail right on the head there but better education, better socio-economic circumstances, improving quality of life, closing the social divide, encouraging social cohesion and reducing the number of disenfranchised people will obviously take a significant amount of time. One of the main things that all of these measures will do is reduce the use of drugs because people use drugs to feel better and you only need to feel better if you feel bad.

The things we could do from your list immediately are to decriminalise some drug use, legalise and manage some drug use and improve access to drug rehabilitation projects. Other countries, most notably Switzerland and Portugal, have taken steps down this road with, I believe, encouraging results.

If you make something illegal then those selling it cannot resort to the law to resolve business disputes, they can only resort to force. This is one of the reasons we see more knives on the streets.

If you make something illegal then the kind of disenfranchised people with poor socio-economic backgrounds and a low quality of life who might end up dealing in it - either with the view to making money to "better" themselves or simply to fund their own drug habits - can only end up in worse circumstances or in prison. When they get out, they are ex-cons, even if they want to go straight what are their chances of a job? Much worse than before. The only option is to go back to selling drugs.

If you make something illegal then those caught with small amounts for personal use end up in the same boat and, generally, an ever decreasing spiral with few obvious ways out which makes them more likely to use drugs and more likely to deal drugs and more likely to commit violent crime and more likely to commit acquisitive crime.

Stop all of this by doing as Dutch said and decriminalise some drug use, legalise and manage some drug use and improve access to drug rehabilitation projects and the levels of crime begin to fall all by themselves meaning that there is less need to pay for more police.