Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By romille
#1663004
It seems that knife crime and carrying weapons is at epidemic proportions in the UK, every week there seem to be news reports of stabbing deaths.

What has caused this, how we convince people that carrying a weapon is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1663007
Better education, better socio-economic circumstances, improving quality of life, starting at the economically disadvantaged, better healthcare, closing the social divide, encouraging social cohesion, reducing the number of disenfranchised people, justice reform, prison reform, doing away with short sentences for some drug offences, decriminalise some drug use, legalise and manage some drug use, improving access to drug rehabilitation projects, minimum unit pricing for alcohol, investing in people and deprived areas, pay for more police, allow proper policing, depoliticise policing.

Think that will do the trick.
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By romille
#1663009
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Better education, better socio-economic circumstances, improving quality of life, starting at the economically disadvantaged, better healthcare, closing the social divide, encouraging social cohesion, reducing the number of disenfranchised people, justice reform, prison reform, doing away with short sentences for some drug offences, decriminalise some drug use, legalise and manage some drug use, improving access to drug rehabilitation projects, minimum unit pricing for alcohol, investing in people and deprived areas, pay for more police, allow proper policing, depoliticise policing.

Think that will do the trick.

Maybe in utopia all those things might come to pass through time, but given that we live in broken Britain and the issue needs sorting now how do we get a grip of the problem now and stop needless deaths?
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1663012
romille wrote:Maybe in utopia all those things might come to pass through time, but given that we live in broken Britain and the issue needs sorting now how do we get a grip of the problem now and stop needless deaths?


I like my tax pounds to be spend wisely and get the best bang for my buck, and for there to be an efficient policing and judicial system.

It takes time, money and effort sorting these things out.

Unfortunately various governments have mismanaged the odd thing or three so there is some catching up to do.

We will never live in Utopia, but aiming for the bottom of the barrel is counterproductive and I prefer to live in a pleasant and just society, and until such time as that has been achieved know that we are striving to get there.

Some of these things are quick to organise and will deliver really quickly. Others may take a few years or a decennia or two.

Nice to leave something positive for our offspring.
By Boxkite
#1663013
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Better education, better socio-economic circumstances, improving quality of life, starting at the economically disadvantaged, better healthcare, closing the social divide, encouraging social cohesion, reducing the number of disenfranchised people, justice reform, prison reform, doing away with short sentences for some drug offences, decriminalise some drug use, legalise and manage some drug use, improving access to drug rehabilitation projects, minimum unit pricing for alcohol, investing in people and deprived areas, pay for more police, allow proper policing, depoliticise policing.

Think that will do the trick.

None of that will work without some DNA engineering.
You can't educate pork.
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By skydriller
#1663014
romille wrote:It seems that knife crime and carrying weapons is at epidemic proportions in the UK, every week there seem to be news reports of stabbing deaths.

What has caused this, how we convince people that carrying a weapon is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.


This will be because we are no longer allowed Guns.... :wink:
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By lobstaboy
#1663019
seanxair wrote:Stiffer more meaningful penalties for every crime.

I take it you mean more and longer prison sentences?
Expensive for the tax payer and without even more money not effective at reducing reoffending.
Complex problems are not solved by simple soundbite style solutions. That's why we're going to hell in a handcart in the first place.
We need some leaders running the show, not the pathetic specimens we've got now (and I stress this is a general point, not a party political one).
By chevvron
#1663028
romille wrote:It seems that knife crime and carrying weapons is at epidemic proportions in the UK, every week there seem to be news reports of stabbing deaths.

What has caused this, how we convince people that carrying a weapon is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

Every WEEK? More like every DAY.
Just as in the USA where some people habitually carry a gun everywhere, you have to realise that to some people over here, carrying a knife is an everyday thing, whether or not they intend to use it on other human beings and it's not helped by the ready availablity of so called 'hunting' knives with a serrated edge on one side.
I believe a government tried to ban the sale of this type of knife years ago but abandoned this plan, can't remember why but maybe it's time to look at such a ban again.
By avtur3
#1663039
seanxair wrote:Stiffer more meaningful penalties for every crime.


I think the problem is that we now live in a time where the penalties are increasingly not having a deterrent effect on many of those who commit crimes.

A deterrent is only effective if it is in the mind of the perpetrator to the point where it either deters the perpetrator altogether or maybe influences the degree of the crime committed.

I don't think that the behaviour of those involved in gang culture are deterred by punishment, people committing crimes to fund drug and alcohol problems are almost certainly not going to be deterred by the level of punishment, terror-related crimes will never be deterred by punishment. Crimes of passion and those committed while under stress or suffering from mental illness will never be prevented by penalties.

If people are not deterred by punishment then all we can do is lock them up (if they are caught) to prevent reoccurrence and hope that while they are locked up they can be influenced to change the values and behaviour; all of which is entirely reactive.

I agree with FD's outline of what is required (i.e. preventative measures) but realistically there is little, if any, chance that that will happen at present. Collectively there is disagreement on the scale and causes of the problem, which simply means we'll never agree on a solution.

I am very pessimistic about this, I can't help but think the problem is going to have to get substantially worse, to the point where there is widespread fear amongst people (i.e. the likes of us), before there is a chance of getting a consensus of opinion on how to deal with it. It will take a great deal of compromise of peoples political and social views to be able to agree on how to deal with the problem.

As we're all painfully well aware our political system is in the process of a very public meltdown. Matters such as knife crime will be addressed with soundbites of disingenuous acknowledgement of the problem with hollow promises of a response.

To address knife crime we need widespread public support for action, genuine cross-party support for actions and substantial resources; I fear we have a long way to go before we have these in sufficient quantity to make any real difference.
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By skydriller
#1663042
chevvron wrote:I believe a government tried to ban the sale of this type of knife years ago but abandoned this plan, can't remember why but maybe it's time to look at such a ban again.


...Because banning something that some in the population use legitimately works really well doesnt it... :roll:
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By Miscellaneous
#1663043
chevvron wrote:I believe a government tried to ban the sale of this type of knife years ago but abandoned this plan, can't remember why but maybe it's time to look at such a ban again.

I think, chevvron, you may find carrying of any knife without legitimate purpose is illegal.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
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By skydriller
#1663044
I am extremely sad that as a youngster I never used to leave home without a knife of some sort in my pocket but that today giving my kids a knife would be considered pretty much a crime in many peoples eyes...

Regards, SD..
By chevvron
#1663048
skydriller wrote:
chevvron wrote:I believe a government tried to ban the sale of this type of knife years ago but abandoned this plan, can't remember why but maybe it's time to look at such a ban again.


...Because banning something that some in the population use legitimately works really well doesnt it... :roll:

Like the Labour government years ago rushed through a ban on pistols thereby inconveniencing thousands of legitimate target shooters, the clubs most affected being police pistol clubs :roll:
Has this reduced the use of pistols in crimes?
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