Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

Moderator: Flyin'Dutch'

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#1663081
eltonioni wrote:You live in the same city as me Joe. Let’s do the high level analysis for a first time solo buyer in Sheffield earning the average UK national wage of £28,677 which I’m sure is less than the good market rate you pay your professional staff. Let’s remember that Sheffield is much more expensive than the surrounding towns too. Here goes....

What’s the problem here apart from the unrealistic expectation?


Albeit a bit of googling suggests the average salary in Sheffield is somewhat lower than the U.K. average, which may make a difference to affordability.
#1663083
eltonioni wrote: What right does anyone have to buy a luxury pad within 3 miles of Bristol city centre?


A right nobody, but some people might not have much say about where they live.

In fact the majority of people have pretty much dictated to them where they live, work, social relations etc to name but a few.

Unless you think that people working in the public sector should by virtue of their work have to live far away from their place of work, or alternatively that the 'London Weighting' of NHS staff pay scales should really reflect how much more expensive it is to live in London.

Anyway if the housing market is so easily accessible for young people, why is it that the proportion of youngsters owning houses is at an all time low and many have to resort to living back home with their parents?

Or do you think that those renting enjoy paying multiples in rent over what a reasonable mortgage would cost.
#1663090
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Anyway if the housing market is so easily accessible for young people, why is it that the proportion of youngsters owning houses is at an all time low and many have to resort to living back home with their parents?

I have no idea of the significance of the numbers, however, as previously said, a contributing factor is a change in priorities and attitudes. It can also be seen in the falling number of youngsters interested in getting a driving licence and having a car.
#1663092
Miscellaneous wrote:I have no idea of the significance of the numbers, however, as previously said, a contributing factor is a change in priorities and attitudes. It can also be seen in the falling number of youngsters interested in getting a driving licence and having a car.


No doubt that this plays a role too.

I think that the younger generations are quite happy to take some of the benefits of being 'adults' but are also quite happy to leave some of the tasks and responsibilities which came back in the day with becoming an adult for a little while on the back burner.

And some of those I can well understand.

(That is an observation not an accusation - our generation has enabled this)

But that is not the main reason I think.

The exponential rise of house prices, the lagging of income, the changed rules for obtaining mortgages do play a very big role too.
#1663093
@Flyin'Dutch' I didn't say that it was easy, I said that some people have unrealistic expectations of being a first time buyer, as evidenced by some of the responses above. There are plenty of young people quietly getting on with buying homes that they can afford without moaning that they can't have the moon on a stick. They will look back in ten years and think how clever they were, while some people will still be moaning about renting and evil landlords.
#1663094
This Thread appears to have taken a bit of a deviation...

I would like to point out that the concept of "must buy a house ASAP" really is a decidedly British thing compared to other places in Europe. I distinctly remember my Ex-wife's family (french) thinking I was an idiot to get a mortgage and buy a house when we got married.

Regards, SD..
#1663096
@skydriller Indeed. It is bonkers for people to buy a house when they are very young but that is British culture and the Banks and government have obviously done very nicely out of that.

@eltonioni I can't think what the percentage is but a substantial number of first time buyers can only do so with part/the majority of the deposit being provided by their parents. To suggest that the only thing young folks have lacking in their quest to have affordable accommodation is a bit of moral grit is non-sense.
#1663103
Given the huge gap between London prices and elsewhere, maybe there isn't so much a housing shortage inside London and the South East as a jobs shortage outside?

Moving some government jobs "up North" can't be that hard can it?

(Apologies for continuing the drift... :oops: )
#1663106
spaughty wrote:Given the huge gap between London prices and elsewhere, maybe there isn't so much a housing shortage inside London and the South East as a jobs shortage outside?

Moving some government jobs "up North" can't be that hard can it?

(Apologies for continuing the drift... :oops: )


It would be mucho better if the infrastructure was better so no forced moves would be necessary but businesses/organisations would be more evenly distributed across the country.

A capital will almost always attract more activity but the situation in the UK is totally out of kilter.
#1663138
I don't know how we got from RNLI in the channel through to the UK housing market but...…..


A significant part of the distortion in London is that most of the top flight housing is built to launder Russian and Chinese money, consequently it adds nothing to the domestic availability and that trickles down to impact the prices of more practical stuff.

Government policy has led to development in the South which is getting very overcrowded in many places, while North of Birmingham they're crying out for investment. In a tiny little island like this it should not be beyond the wit of man to even things out a bit.....
#1663140
Flyin'Dutch' wrote: @eltonioni I can't think what the percentage is but a substantial number of first time buyers can only do so with part/the majority of the deposit being provided by their parents. To suggest that the only thing young folks have lacking in their quest to have affordable accommodation is a bit of moral grit is non-sense.

I haven't suggested that young people are merely lacking moral grit - it would be nonsense to do that. What I have said is that there are affordable homes, that might need a commute, it will probably require expectation management.

Help to buy gives first time buyers a free £3k from HMG. They also get (if I recall correctly) access to a special savings ISA that gives them a n additional free gift of about a quarter of what they save towards a deposit. Interest rates are on the floor. It's not a bad package, and certainly better than it was 25 years ago while you and I were allegedly busy buying ladders to pull up later. :) (This is all a moving target and might be different this week)

No moral grit is required, just information and the desire to buy a house. Nobody is making them. The world isn't going to change by moaning about it not being fair. Plenty of first time buyers are just getting on with it, making the commitment and a few sacrifices, coupling up, borrowing a bit , doing some overtime, looking further away than's convenient, etc ,etc.

On prices, quoting average house prices is ridiculous when discussing first time buyers - first time buyers don't buy average priced homes. I'm confident that we've shown above that there are affordable homes in the reach of young couples on regular wages, and yes homes are expensive and need commitment, but it's still the best way of spending your money if you want to make money. My advice to "just buy it now and look back in ten years" is pretty solid real world advice don't you think?

There is undoubtedly a supply side problem in the UK which affects prices. More people = more demand (are we nearly back on topic ?;)) Want to create a more competitive marketplace for homes and make them more affordable? First train more of our young people as builders, etc. Then build more homes by granting more planning consents and releasing more greenbelt land for development.
#1663150
Help to buy only helps to pump more money into the market and further inflate prices.

As for building and planning, there is an interesting graphic doing the rounds showing the proportion of private car to public transport commutes. It’s stark. It shows the lack of investment in transport infrastructure and how the London area benefits from investment and jobs.
#1663424
While it is undoubtedly helping to address certain immediate problems I too have mixed feelings about Help To Buy in the longer term. It is a bit of a sticking plaster but it's all we've got at the moment.

As for building and planning - release land to build more homes on the edge of towns and cities and the infrastructure will follow. It won't just be public transport but the schools, retail, workplaces, roads, etc. Some rule tinkering is needed to dissuade / prevent local authorities are allowed abusing the spending of Section 106 and Community Infrastructure Levy for political benefit. The basic problem is that the planning process is broken because politicians are unwilling to make critical but unpopular decisions. There are some simple changes necessary which won't be popular because they would bring out the NIMBY hypocrite in us all.
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