[Flyin'Dutch']

Have you examples? I could be converted.

Of what?

Paper or fax data breaches, or losing paper records?

[Jim Jones]

Have you examples? I could be converted.

Of what?

Paper or fax data breaches, or losing paper records?

Hacking of faxes. (As opposed to human error misdialling). And what scale can be achieved compared to hacking computerised systems?

[Flyin'Dutch']

Jim, with a minimal google search you can hack fax machines yourself.

https://thehackernews.com/2018/08/hack- ... chine.html

[GolfHotel]

Faxes are dumb, require the use of paper, are easily hacked, slow and expensive.

They need to be ditched asap

we have the perfect solution. GPS etc insist on using fax, probably below their pay grade to decide , so we use a service. They send it to a telephone number, its not really a telephone but dont tell anyone, that converts it to an email and sends it on to us. Done this for years. Its saved us having to worry about it and everyone is happy. Works the other way, we write a message on our putter, it gets emailed to an address that converts it to a fx.

[GolfHotel]

.....

Hacking of faxes. (As opposed to human error misdialling). And what scale can be achieved compared to hacking computerised systems?

telephone systems are computerized, have been for years.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Faxes are dumb, require the use of paper, are easily hacked, slow and expensive.

They need to be ditched asap

we have the perfect solution. GPS etc insist on using fax, probably below their pay grade to decide , so we use a service. They send it to a telephone number, its not really a telephone but dont tell anyone, that converts it to an email and sends it on to us. Done this for years. Its saved us having to worry about it and everyone is happy. Works the other way, we write a message on our putter, it gets emailed to an address that converts it to a fx.

Why don't they get you a secure email address and email the stuff to you.

[Jim Jones]

The how to hack a fax sites I’ve googled use the fax machine to access the network, then they exploit the weakness of that system.

Sounds like a case for analogue faxes with dedicated phone lines .

And faxes marked “confidential, urgent”.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Jim, why the resistance to using secure emails?

Secure electronic document securely from your device to the intended recipient's secure device.

No bits of paper to get lost on top.

[Jim Jones]

I’ll ask the people who upgraded our servers last Tuesday and created a complete loss of access for a morning clinic......

[Flyin'Dutch']

IT mishaps can and do happen, sadly I am old and long enough in the tooth to remember the delight of working with paper files.

One can not practise up to date modern, safe healthcare without the support of good IT.

I trust you don't keep your records in the fax machines do you?

[GolfHotel]

....

Why don't they get you a secure email address and email the stuff to you.

I have no idea. Some people (non NHS) send us patient data in encrypted emails. Unfortunately they then send the password in the next email! The brown stuff will hit the rotary air mover some time.

[GolfHotel]

I'm often asked "what happens if the computer crashes" My reply is normally the something along the lines of "the same as if you lose a file, only we will have a copy less than 6 hrs old."

EDIT to add: we have so far only had to use the back up once. A nurse downloaded a virus onto the server. They cant access the server now, except via our programs. But we have a back up every 6 hrs for the last year. And every month going back 6 years from then.

[rikur_]

[Jim Jones]

IT mishaps can and do happen, sadly I am old and long enough in the tooth to remember the delight of working with paper files.

One can not practise up to date modern, safe healthcare without the support of good IT.

I trust you don't keep your records in the fax machines do you?

I have worked with Electronic Patient Records for about 20 years. EMIS in caps only green on black screen, Vision, which I liked as the first Windows based setup I used;, a dire thing called Illy sold to commissioners on the basis of its ability to meet their data reporting needs, but useless clinically; ditto Theseus. Now I’m on Systm1, which is great, but our contract denies direct access to GP systems, as we are not NHS now, having been given to charity funded via the local authority using public health money, and despite clinicians still having nhs.net emails, we must use post or fax letters. Which have always been there for those 20 years. Maybe that’s why they persist?

[treborsnave]

I've had a bit of experience with this in the past - have installed fax servers in a couple of NHS trusts. The main reason quoted for still using them is the direct delivery concept - you get a receipt at the end of the transmission process, not something you can in most cases reliably offer with internet email.
What many folks don't realise is that investment banking is still largely underpinned by fax - ok so these days it's mainly fax server to fax server comms but the numbers of transmissions for trade confirmations daily is staggering.
Some i believe are still using telex