Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By johnm
#1706635
treborsnave wrote:
johnm wrote:In general I think the other 27 no longer really care what happens, they've done a fair bit of preparation for no deal and will see how it plays out.


So everyone's well prepared behind the scenes and it looks like no-deal is likely to be a complete whimper as opposed to a bang. Doesn't that defuse a lot of the project fear nonsense?

I do challenge folks on this - if you take the element of fear out of the equation, what are you left with as sensible arguments for remaining?

EDIT- please please don't say peace, no chlorinated chicken or mobile roaming charges...



The fact that a tremendous amount of damage limitation has taken place doesn't mean that there won't be impact. Everything about Brexit has been about damage limitation since there are no benefits except perhaps to the odd disaster capitalist in the short term.

It's not fear that makes me a Remainer it's the joy of being effectively a citizen of 28 countries looking to try and make the world a better place, socially, politically and economically. It's a very hard thing to do, progress is slow, there are many problems, but it's a positive ideal.

If someone could show that Brexit was a positive move in those three ways I would listen, but Brexit has been all about escaping from Fantasy jail into a Fantasy world and has had the side effect of bringing some extremely unpleasant people to prominence..
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1706639
@treborsnave

The EU is well prepared, the UK not so.

@eltonioni

Didn't know the pants season was already upon us. Oh yes, you did.

:D
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By eltonioni
#1706640
@Flyin'Dutch' You'd better point it out to me FD because I really didn't say that the WA was done and dusted, because I don't think it is... maybe.

Keep one eye open for the EU offering to reopen it to insert a termination date, and the other eye open for the new PM saying "no thanks".
Last edited by eltonioni on Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1706641
eltonioni wrote:@Flyin'Dutch' You'd better point it out to me FD because I really didn't say that the WA was done and dusted, because I don't think it is... maybe.


Sorry, the no-deal withdrawal.
By johnm
#1706645
Keep one eye open for the EU offering to reopen it to insert a termination date, and the other eye open for the new PM saying "no thanks".


Where in the WA do you think the termination date should sit? Are you limiting the transition period or the backstop period or both.

As I read it the assumption behind the WA has always been that a new relationship based on the political declaration would be agreed during the (possibly extended) transition period and that unless that all went horribly wrong the backstop would become redundant.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1706647
Have we got a new PM yet?

Can't wait for the next chapter in the UK comedy show; by contrast the Germans have only a shaking Merkel.
By JoeC
#1706657
After 10 years the Tories grand plan of letting the country run itself with minimal effort or input from Tory MPs has finally been fully implemented. They have also cleverly managed to insulate themselves from the associated problems they have engendered of homelessness, accesible housing, underfunded schools, chronic low wages, growth of NHS waiting lists, rising bigotry and listless decision making.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1706704
Was that the aim?
By JoeC
#1706710
UpThere wrote:Four hundred and eighty nine pages later, has anybody actually changed their mind about Brexit, as a result of the arguments presented here?



Yes. At first I wasn't sure if the whole thing was a pretty flaky idea pandering to those attracted by specious arguments who are always keen to blame someone else and who smugly would not be affected by either outcome.

And now, four hundred and so pages later, I know it is a really flaky idea pandering to those attracted by specious arguments who are always keen to blame someone else and who smugly would not be affected by the outcome.

Thanks guys for changing my opinion. :pale:
Jim Jones, johnm, PaulB and 2 others liked this
By Bill Haddow
#1706734
UpThere wrote:Four hundred and eighty nine pages later, has anybody actually changed their mind about Brexit, as a result of the arguments presented here?


I had a sabbatical from this topic for a while as it was becoming sterile, with the same people saying the same things pretty much ad nauseam.

Of late the only fresh interest has been the bimbling down some byways such as criticism of the POTUS and of the Tories' leadership contest - neither of which seems to have much relevance to our referendum of 3 years ago, but hey-ho, they made a change.

Still, you can have a bit of fun twisting tails., talking of which, @Flyin'Dutch' , we're still waiting for you to give examples of the EU quotas you claimed existed in your post #1698639 and the Brownshirt behaviour which you claimed was imitated in your post #1706344. :snooty:

Bill H
By johnm
#1706739
Hitler's Brownshirts popped up I think because their behaviour in the Reichstag of the 1930s was reflected in the behaviour of the Brexit MEPs in the EU Parliament in 2019. In the UK Mosley's Blackshirts are a bit more relevant and there "Tommy Robinson's" followers strike a chord, though they don't appear to be an organised group as Mosley's Fascists were. Farage has been careful not to take on the kind of leadership role that Mosley did, preferring tacit approval.

The fundamental issue for me is that across the pages of this thread and elsewhere in the press social media and down the pub, no-one has yet come forward with a reasoned argument for Brexit that stands scrutiny. Yet people still have faith in it, as they did in 2016, despite the fact there has been no consensus on what "it" is. As Brexit shifts and changes, people just adopt the new definition as "what we voted for". So we've gone from the "Easiest deal in history" to "No deal" and people seem to discern no difference.
UpThere liked this
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