Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

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By Nomad63
#1705670
I am baffled why those with supposed left leanings are so keen on the EU, it's 2 dominant states being one that just loves Nuclear power and the other that produces 40% of it's energy by burning coal, yet somehow they are so much more ethical and cool than we are

What was that about logical thought?
By johnm
#1705671
Sooty25 wrote:The EU has evolved and expanded far too fast. From what it started out as, to where is is now, just too much.

It allows the likes of Luxembourg to harbour corporate tax evaders who tax strip other nations, Amazon being the classic culprit.

Then it finds time to insist veggieburgers can't be called burgers, and electric cars must go "vroom-vroom" while we bankroll it!


This is just more of the same relatively minor issues. Moreover the veggieburger issues came out of the Parliamentary Committee on Agriculture, possibly as a result of our elected representatives being lobbied by the meat industry.....

As we've noted many times the cost is trivial. The value is immense and will grow over time.

Even in the USA there are taxation and other legal issues as Federal taxes and state taxes differ widely and create anomalies and some states have legal bans or permissions that don't apply elsewhere .

As I keep saying the fact that there are things wrong with the EU doesn't make it a bad thing and doesn't make membership undesirable, unless and until it can be shown that there's a better way and thus far no-one has been able to do that.
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By johnm
#1705672
Nomad63 wrote:I am baffled why those with supposed left leanings are so keen on the EU, it's 2 dominant states being one that just loves Nuclear power and the other that produces 40% of it's energy by burning coal, yet somehow they are so much more ethical and cool than we are

What was that about logical thought?


As it happens both states have been working hard to change the mix of energy production and renewables now outweigh coal in Germany.

There was a third state that had significant influence but it decided to give that up for reasons that remain a mystery.

I'm not sure why anyone would think that France and Germany were more ethical and cool than we are, most states are imperfect and at the moment ours is rather more imperfect than some it must be admitted.
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By Sooty25
#1705675
johnm wrote:
Sooty25 wrote:The EU has evolved and expanded far too fast. From what it started out as, to where is is now, just too much.

It allows the likes of Luxembourg to harbour corporate tax evaders who tax strip other nations, Amazon being the classic culprit.

Then it finds time to insist veggieburgers can't be called burgers, and electric cars must go "vroom-vroom" while we bankroll it!


This is just more of the same relatively minor issues. Moreover the veggieburger issues came out of the Parliamentary Committee on Agriculture, possibly as a result of our elected representatives being lobbied by the meat industry.....

As we've noted many times the cost is trivial. The value is immense and will grow over time.

Even in the USA there are taxation and other legal issues as Federal taxes and state taxes differ widely and create anomalies and some states have legal bans or permissions that don't apply elsewhere .

As I keep saying the fact that there are things wrong with the EU doesn't make it a bad thing and doesn't make membership undesirable, unless and until it can be shown that there's a better way and thus far no-one has been able to do that.


Veggieburgers and noisy electric cars may be trivial on their own, so trivial the EU doesn't need to waste resources on them and draw attention to itself , but it does.

De minimis kicks in eventually.
By johnm
#1705682
If you want to be aggravated by trivial nonsense try the UK town and country planning system........
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By johnm
#1705686
johnm wrote:If you want to be aggravated by trivial nonsense try the UK town and country planning system........



Edited to add: It may be worth pointing out that the Veggie issue is democracy at play and it seems that Parliament is being lobbied by the meat industry to stop veggies stealing their terminology :-) The electric car issue has also resulted in legislation in Japan and the USA, as a consequence of lobbying by blind people, so the EU is not alone.....
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By Flyingfemme
#1705689
JAAMOI the czechs have been given “permission” by the EU to implement a domestic reverse charge VAT option for any transaction of €17,000 or above. A very sensible idea that should have been in the original VAT rules for all countries. The charade of paying/claiming VAT at every step puts EU business at a disadvantage compared to foreign business. Why does VAT not work like sales tax in the USA and registered businesses don;t charge/pay each other?
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By eltonioni
#1705700
johnm wrote:If you want to be aggravated by trivial nonsense try the UK town and country planning system........

I’m triggered. :lol:

Mind you, our system is certainly different to the one where negotiations to buy and develop a large chunk of government land with EU funding to remediate it in a major European nation was eased after the (unrequited) request from government officials for the VAT payment to be “under the table”.
By johnm
#1705706
eltonioni wrote:
johnm wrote:If you want to be aggravated by trivial nonsense try the UK town and country planning system........

I’m triggered. :lol:

Mind you, our system is certainly different to the one where negotiations to buy and develop a large chunk of government land with EU funding to remediate it in a major European nation was eased after the (unrequited) request from government officials for the VAT payment to be “under the table”.



Shades of Newcastle in the 1970s :-)
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By JAFO
#1705709
johnm wrote:As we've noted many times the cost is trivial.


You may have noted that but it doesn't necessarily follow that I have accepted that.

johnm wrote:As I keep saying the fact that there are things wrong with the EU doesn't make it a bad thing and doesn't make membership undesirable, unless and until it can be shown that there's a better way and thus far no-one has been able to do that.


Isn't that largely because no-one has tried? Is that not what we're about to attempt?
By johnm
#1705738
Isn't that largely because no-one has tried? Is that not what we're about to attempt?


No, to take forward something like Brexit one would expect that there'd be a reasoned argument for its benefits and a comparison to show why that would be better than continuing as an EU state.

Then there would be a strategy and plan to realise those benefits.

Like anything else it would have its miscalculations and drawbacks along the way but thus far there is absolutely no such information that stands a moments scrutiny.

We have seen a catalogue of problems and issues with EU and we have shown that it's easy to build a similar catalogue of issues and problems within the UK and the USA and anywhere else for that matter.

We have seen fears about the emergence of a United States of Europe, but no model for any such structure is anywhere near discussion let alone decision and so as far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant and my grandchildren or great grandchildren can consider that in due course if it arises.

So fundamentally there is no reasoned case for Brexit that I have found anywhere, there is a reasoned case for Remain which includes a high level of vigilance about its future strategy and ensuring that opt outs continue and can be managed sensibly within the overall structures and that pragmatic approach has worked well for the UK (and others) thus far.
By treborsnave
#1705762
Interesting feedback from a new Brexit Party MEP:

“Next to nobody in Brussels has any clue what the European Union truly stands for — beyond a flag and an anthem — and more crucially, where it is heading. And that includes the EU leaders and senior officials soullessly waddling through the corridors of power. When I arrived in the EU capital, I expected to find it brimming with activity and potential answers to these questions. Instead, I felt duped: Making a tangible impact on constituents’ lives is apparently not what being an MEP is all about.”

No, wait - it was a green party MEP.

https://www.politico.eu/article/magid-m ... -brussels/
By Bill Haddow
#1705803
Flyingfemme wrote:
. . . reverse charge VAT . . .

The charade of paying/claiming VAT at every step puts EU business at a disadvantage compared to foreign business. Why does VAT not work like sales tax in the USA and registered businesses don;t charge/pay each other?


As it is, I charge my customers VAT on my invoices and pay my suppliers the VAT on their invoices for goods/services. At the end of the period, I pay HMRC the difference.

There is to be a new "reverse charge" system imposed upon the construction industry in an attempt to tackle "missing trader" fraud. Under this, I will receive the VAT on my invoices only from customers who are not in the scheme, the remainder will pay this VAT directly to HMRC. I will pay the VAT on goods etc to my suppliers, but I will not pay the VAT on my sub-contractors' invoices to them; instead I will pay this directly to HMRC. At the end of the period, I will have to establish:

(VAT charged by me to all customers PLUS VAT charged to me by "scheme" sub-contractors) MINUS (VAT charged by me to "scheme" customers PLUS VAT charged to me by "non-scheme" suppliers) and pay that to HMRC.

Presumably I will have to keep records of who is supposed to be paying directly to HMRC etc. I think this is complicated, more scope for fraud, and would not lessen any disadvantage vis-a-vis lack of competitiveness.

Apologies for thread drift.

Bill H
By Colonel Panic
#1705807
johnm wrote:... ensuring that opt outs continue and can be managed sensibly within the overall structures and that pragmatic approach has worked well for the UK (and others) thus far.

Unless, it seems, if a state wants to opt out of the EU itself.
By johnm
#1705816
Colonel Panic wrote:
johnm wrote:... ensuring that opt outs continue and can be managed sensibly within the overall structures and that pragmatic approach has worked well for the UK (and others) thus far.

Unless, it seems, if a state wants to opt out of the EU itself.


As a wise man once said "Self inflicted injury is boring...."

Opting out of everything, as some have begun to realise, is an immensely complicated task if it is to be done in an orderly fashion.
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