Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

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By Bill Haddow
#1705402
johnm wrote:
The EU is not a country but it is a single market


With a single set of rules, but a plethora of approaches to their observance and enforcement.

Bill H
JAFO liked this
By johnm
#1705405
Bill Haddow wrote:
johnm wrote:
The EU is not a country but it is a single market


With a single set of rules, but a plethora of approaches to their observance and enforcement.

Bill H


Indeed, just like any other market because you missed out the most important word "interpretation" which applies to all rules.

"Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools". Wise men look behind the rules and understand why they were made and act accordingly, which may mean some bending when it makes sense...as well as putting them into the context of the local environment and culture.
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By JAFO
#1705406
John, you know full well that rules are for the blind obedience of fools (and generally the UK), the guidance of wise men and the blatant disregard of several member states.
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By johnm
#1705408
JAFO wrote:John, you know full well that rules are for the blind obedience of fools (and generally the UK), the guidance of wise men and the blatant disregard of several member states.


Interested to know which ones have a blatant disregard and what the impact is, because I don't expect perfection or total consistency. I just note that the benefits of being in it far and away outweigh the faults and that all alternative arrangements currently available are worse, which applies pretty much to the overall picture of EU membership as I've consistently made clear.

It's interesting to note too that at our local market there are often two cheese stalls one presents its wares like the French and one like a UK supermarket, you won't have any difficulty in working out which one we buy from :wink:

I'm wondering at the moment whether to open a separate thread on the state of the UK, which is a complete and utter mess from a public service and political point of view, but still not a bad place to live.
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By JAFO
#1705410
PaulB wrote:... it’s the largest export market we have (apart from the one that’s bigger)


Paul, surely if the EU is one market then we can't currently be seen as exporting to it as we are part of the same market. That would make the US the largest current export market.

If we do treat trade with other member states as exports rather than trades within a single market then they must be individual states. That would make the US the largest current export market.

This is semantics and will be largely irrelevant on 1st November (at which point I'm happy to agree that the EU forms the largest part of the UK's export market) but right at this moment the US is our largest export market.
PaulB, potted meat liked this
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By JAFO
#1705411
johnm wrote:I'm wondering at the moment whether to open a separate thread on the state of the UK, which is a complete and utter mess from a public service and political point of view, but still not a bad place to live.


On this, John, we can agree.
By johnm
#1705412
Given @JAFO definitions I think his conclusions are correct, but may lack a bit of context in terms of impact and importance :wink:
JAFO liked this
By Bill Haddow
#1705468
johnm wrote:
Interested to know which ones have a blatant disregard



France - Spanish fruit, German apples, Welsh lamb, Italian wine have all suffered.

Germany, at the last count, had more rule infringements than any other member.

Italy, France, and Germany pay scant regard to EU budget rules.

. . . .

Bill H
potted meat liked this
By johnm
#1705475
Shrugs shoulders and suggests a case at the ECJ if need be. You can't force people to buy produce they don't want. Brits don't like sea food but we catch quite a lot and are grateful for the Spanish trucks taking it to where it's appreciated. As I said nothing's perfect you have to look at the overall picture of benefits versus problems, see if there is a better answer and then reach a conclusion.
By Bill Haddow
#1705482
johnm wrote:
You can't force people to buy produce they don't want.



True, but when the people want the stuff, and their farmers destroy the imported stuff and transport vehicles, you expect the gendarmerie to do a bit more than observe with a Gallic shrug.

johnm wrote:
As I said nothing's perfect you have to look at the overall picture of benefits versus problems, see if there is a better answer and then reach a conclusion.


We did that. We reached a conclusion. On the 23rd of June 2016.

Bill H
potted meat, eltonioni liked this
By johnm
#1705485
We did that. We reached a conclusion. On the 23rd of June 2016.


But plainly not on the basis of the logical thought process I suggested :lol:
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
By Bill Haddow
#1705499
johnm wrote:
We did that. We reached a conclusion. On the 23rd of June 2016.


But plainly not on the basis of the logical thought process I suggested :lol:


Read your own post - it contained no such suggestion.

To imply now that the voters who voted differently to you (the majority, as it happens) did not engage in a " logical thought process " shows an arrogance which is truly breath-taking.

Bill H
By johnm
#1705501
I am an arrogant beggar aren't I??

That said my logic was very simple as I've said before. Overall do the benefits of EU membership outweigh the myriad problems and issues? Answer yes. Does Brexit (credibly) offer something better? Answer no.
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By PaulB
#1705520
johnm wrote:I am an arrogant beggar aren't I??

That said my logic was very simple as I've said before. Overall do the benefits of EU membership outweigh the myriad problems and issues? Answer yes. Does Brexit (credibly) offer something better? Answer no.


No-one seems to have suggested anything credible that suggests otherwise....
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By nallen
#1705532
Bill Haddow wrote:To imply now that the voters who voted differently to you (the majority, as it happens) did not engage in a " logical thought process " shows an arrogance which is truly breath-taking.


Are the Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supporters currently burning EU flags in Parliament Square engaging in logical thought processes? Just asking …
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