Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

Moderator: Flyin'Dutch'

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By johnm
#1655705
Sooty25 wrote:maybe voting rights should have been based on net contribution!


Interesting idea, but as is often the case the money is in many ways secondary, it's influence that counts in the long run and that's about engagement and competent negotiating and we've been useless at both sadly.
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By Bob Bevan
#1655713
Sooty25 wrote:maybe voting rights should have been based on net contribution!


Should we try that with UK parliamentary elections!

(Lights blue touch paper and runs away) :whistle:
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By OCB
#1655732
Wouldn’t it make more sense, right now, to have the EU26 public (not politicians) vote on whether the UK should stay in the EU?

From that, it wouldn’t be too hard to extrapolate *why* the UK should even bother trying to “remain”. Plenty of core member citizens I know are happy to see the UK go, since the UK has been the sulking child in the corner that refuses to go along with pretty much every integrationist incentive.
By johnm
#1655736
[pedant] 27 not 26 [/pedant]
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1655738
OCB wrote:Plenty of core member citizens I know are happy to see the UK go, since the UK has been the sulking child in the corner that refuses to go along with pretty much every integrationist incentive.


Whilst the sulking attitude may not have endeared the UK to some, there is nobody I know* over here on the continent that I know (that is of course just a small sample) or have met in the last 2.5 years who can understand why the UK wants to leave or indeed wants the UK to leave.

Au contraire - they very much want the UK to stay .

*mainly in the Netherlands and Germany - and they are as we know also net contributors so it is not a case of those who benefit financially from the EU want the UK to continue to contribute, indeed the money is the least important issue (but then it always was)
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By OCB
#1655740
johnm wrote:[pedant] 27 not 26 [/pedant]


Yep, typing on phone...

So, whose for campaigning for a “Brit-in” referendum across Europe?
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By OCB
#1655743
FD, let me know the next time you’re passing by Brussels.

Not meaning you’d be in for a beating, anything but (would be a right laugh to meet up) - although plenty of your fellow dutch(ish) speakers here wouldn’t agree with what you say. A fair few frenchies also want the UK “dehors”.

Exact quote from a highly educated colleague the other day was “with the UK gone, we can finally move forward with reforms the UK always blocked”

Straight up, nae bx
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By OCB
#1655761
karlbown wrote:Well if one person has said it that’s enough evidence for me!


..which is where the whole generality versus...oh, ferk it, this where the whole Neverdum argument comes in...and exits.

It's a political Möbius Strip.

Which I think is a perfect coda....
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By Cowshed
#1655781
The country is so evenly split and such trenchant views are held I think we will be arguing about this for years to come. As I see it there are, broadly speaking, 3 possible outcomes:

a) Brexit happens and is a stunning success. Brexiters bang on about it; remainers sulk.
b) Brexit happens and is a stunning disaster. Remainers say “we told you so”; brexiters will say it’s because the country was thwarted from negotiating the proper Brexit it deserved.
c) Brexit somehow doesn’t happen. Remainers breath a sigh of relief (possibly short lived); brexiters go on about how democracy has been undermined etc etc.

I’ve been thinking that this subject is so divisive it has similarities to the Civil War where families and friends were split by fundamentally opposing convictions as to the rights of the monarch and Parliament.

Perhaps the only solution is to partition the country into two parts - say West UK and East UK (other ways of dividing the country are available) with one part remaining within the EU and the other part out of it. Perhaps not such a good idea as we seem currently unable to square the circle that is the Irish border, but it would give lots of mileage for even more debate/argument. :wink:
By spaughty
#1655809
I remember that some of the Brexit camp were not always so keen to enshrine the sanctity of the once-expressed "will of the people": BBC: Nigel Farage
:-)

One could compare and contrast for ever the levels of exaggeration and dumbing-down of arguments by both campaigns in the 2016 referendum, but there was one fundamental asymmetry of information available to the voters:

"Remain" voters chose the status quo, they knew exactly what it was, and they were all voting for the same thing.

"Leave" voters chose to reject the status quo, for an alternative future which by definition could not be well known or predicted, and I doubt they all voted for the same thing.

I don't see any easy route to a second referendum, but I can see the justification for one, as the voters would now be slightly better informed.
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By johnm
#1655827
I don't see any easy route to a second referendum, but I can see the justification for one, as the voters would now be slightly better informed.



I can see the logic in that, my worry is about whether their understanding of the practicalities of both options has improved and whether they care. So far the anecdotal evidence is not encouraging.....
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By johnm
#1655830
I discovered a rather pithy summary of the current situation on Twitter which is well worth a read. You don't need a twitter account to follow the link.


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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1655847
Flying_john wrote:With a clear bias as a remainer !!


Clearly but with a healthy dose of facts as well…...
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