Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

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By johnm
#1692401
@eltonioni The LSE compared and contrasted Minford and Osborne/Treasury and didn't give either much credit as I recall.

One factor ignored by many pundits is the fact that we haven't left yet and so it's largely business as usual, though there is some evidence of damage in terms of activity moving and reduced investment offset to a degree by the fall in the pound post the referendum.
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By eltonioni
#1692427
The LSE provided the Osborne / Treasury forecasts. The "but we haven't left yet" argument ran out of steam as soon as Osborne / Treasury used the LSE predictions of a disaster brought on just by voting Leave. So far, the polar opposite has happened.

I am not very interested in rehashing the arguments that Remain lost, literally years ago. Democracy is what makes me thump tubs.

That said, I'm quite amused that UK PLC is trundling on reasonably well in spite of HMG doing bugger all for three years. We can all take something away from that. (preferably about 450 MP's)
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By JoeC
#1692443
[quote="eltonioni"]t UK PLC is trundling on reasonably well/quote]

It is for those that are well off and don't care and only measure the success of UK PLC in FTSE 100 financial terms.

The country is lacking massive amount of investment and leadership in housing, health and education. The last ten years have seen huge gaps opening between different parts of communities in terms of health and prospects. Families are working full time but struggling to pay rents or improve the quality of their families lives. As ever, it's ok for those that its ok for but there's millions struggling. As long as those with power and wealth feel comfortable with their lot then little will change under the current leadership.
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By johnm
#1692450
The LSE provided the Osborne / Treasury forecasts.


Can you provide citation for that? I wasn’t aware and have only seen assorted analysis and commentary from LSE not much of it flattering.......
By JoeC
#1692475
eltonioni wrote::thumright: Glad to hear that you're doing your bit for the less well off @JoeC


I can only do it with my vote and I have always voted for redistribution of wealth and progressive social polices in every general election. This has normally meant higher taxes for me and my business than if I voted for the Tories. It may not be much but it is what I can do.
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By Nomad63
#1692485
JoeC wrote:
eltonioni wrote:t UK PLC is trundling on reasonably well/quote]

It is for those that are well off and don't care and only measure the success of UK PLC in FTSE 100 financial terms.

The country is lacking massive amount of investment and leadership in housing, health and education. The last ten years have seen huge gaps opening between different parts of communities in terms of health and prospects. Families are working full time but struggling to pay rents or improve the quality of their families lives. As ever, it's ok for those that its ok for but there's millions struggling. As long as those with power and wealth feel comfortable with their lot then little will change under the current leadership.


I do agree with all that, whilst recognising this situation came about whilst being EU members, I also recognise that the same increasing divides are evident throughout the West, so not much of an arguement for remaining.

It's wrong to think that Leavers are all right wing im alright jack types, in fact from my reading of the characters in here it appears its the remainers who want to keep their pot intact that could be thought more so.

I'm a leaver and am likely more left wing than anyone in here, oh and I'm skint :D
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By eltonioni
#1692490
JoeC wrote:
eltonioni wrote::thumright: Glad to hear that you're doing your bit for the less well off @JoeC


I can only do it with my vote and I have always voted for redistribution of wealth and progressive social polices in every general election. This has normally meant higher taxes for me and my business than if I voted for the Tories. It may not be much but it is what I can do.


We can all do more than use our vote. At its most basic, you draw pictures, we lay bricks. (no insult intended) We decided that our piles of bricks should make £125k houses for young first time buyers.

I'm sure that you could draw pictures with an eye to society and pay taxes with what's left over too. CSR doesn't really cut it for me; been there, done that, decided that it was just window dressing to win work (just like progressive politics).
By johnm
#1692491
Inequality of wealth isn’t really an EU issue as the policies and culture that impact that are domestic.

The U.K. is in the top 3 by some measures for inequality in industrialised nations along with Sweden and the USA .

CSR is like so much other politically correct stuff here it is the triumph of form over substance.

The real problem is the idea that business is about making money. It should be about doing a good job of making quality stuff that people want and so being successful and making a good living.
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By eltonioni
#1692507
If you were at the bottom of the job heap and found yourself competing against foreigners in a way that your mum and dad didn't, keeping you in precarious jobs with low wages AND you can't get your kids into the local primary, you might feel that the EU isn't working especially well for you.

It's no good taking about NHS workers and fruit pickers from a position of middle class security and wondering why other people "don't get it".
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1692512
eltonioni wrote:If you were at the bottom of the job heap and found yourself competing against foreigners in a way that your mum and dad didn't, keeping you in precarious jobs with low wages AND you can't get your kids into the local primary, you might feel that the EU isn't working especially well for you.

It's no good taking about NHS workers and fruit pickers from a position of middle class security and wondering why other people "don't get it".


No evidence that foreign workers are competing with UK workers for jobs - if you have evidence please share.

Au contraire it is evident now the supply from the EU has dried up that farmers are struggling to harvest their crops and the shortage of NHS staff is getting even bigger.

Lack of UK infrastructure UK problem caused by mismanaged UK resources.

Kicking net contributors out will lead to lower tax take, schools are already underfunded so less tax money coming in unlikely to create a swelling of DoE funds.
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By johnm
#1692518
Some of the best work on migration is done at Oxford. This article covers the impact note there’s no distinction between EU and the rest and we know that as EU migration has reduced migration from elsewhere has increased but the skills mix has not been consistent.
By Bill McCarthy
#1692519
The supply of EU workers has dried up for the simple reason that those very workers have benefitted from EU membership of their own countries. Wages have levelled and why slave away for minimum wage picking fruit, and veggies. How on earth did we manage before EU days. Many of our own are languishing on the dole, could quite easily do the work, but are just not inclined in any way to get a job. Time to toughen up and to hell with the PC brigade and get them to bend their backs for once in their lives.
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By johnm
#1692520
@Bill McCarthy and @eltonioni it’s a bit tricky to assess these issues but there’s no doubt that at the bottom end there is no longer the sense of self respect that would make working in the field preferable to lying on the sofa for the same minimal income.

I have no clue how to address that and ideas like the living wage don’t seem to have made a material difference.
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