Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

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By johnm
#1674180
eltonioni wrote:Come on John, the federalist agenda is in plain sight. If any evidence were needed then we need look no further than the EU President's own words and deeds.


There are thousands of agendas in plain sight, there are tens on Brexit alone. For an agenda to be interesting there is a need for a credible plan to turn it into a policy with a chance of being implemented.

There is no such post as “ EU President.”.
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By kanga
#1674187
johnm wrote:..

There are thousands of agendas in plain sight, there are tens on Brexit alone. ..


There is a curiously analogous dispute currently in British Columbia. The Provincial and Federal Governments and Courts seem to be saying to the interested or affected First Nations "please tell us clearly what you agree you want, and agree on who speaks for you, and we will be as helpful as we can be. The ball's in your court(s)".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47034740

A 'federalist' (ie, autocratically centralising in the interests of large and distant commercial or political interests) agenda is what you'd expect in US dealings with 'Native Americans', in disregard of prior Treaties.

Pity , though, that the BBC reporter seems not to be aware of the difference between 'Reserve' (Canadian, protected by law and Treaty, and recognising 'unceded' status of land where there is no Treaty) and 'Reservation' (US, enforced by Federal forces and administered from Washington with minimal locally-delegated powers).
By Mike Tango
#1674193
The UK in EU Challenge have been granted a further oral hearing on Thursday 21st February at the Royal Courts of Justice, when they will have the opportunity of presenting their case for leave to appeal.

It’s almost as if the judiciary know the referendum was corrupt and shouldn’t stand, but keep doing their own can kicking in the hope the politicians will do the right thing...
By johnm
#1674201
Bill Haddow wrote:
kanga wrote: (the Bayeux Tapestry) :)


Typical Euro nonsense. It is not a tapestry, it is an embroidery, and it was not made in Bayeux.
:snooty:

Bill H

And it has recently been extended in Alderney :D
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By Sooty25
#1674203
spaughty wrote:If you think "it's not too difficult", or we just save the "protection racket fee", can I suggest that you find out what Michael Gove has to say on the subject of "No Deal"?



I'd rather listen to a farmer and hear about the real world!
By johnm
#1674205
Sooty25 wrote:
I'd rather listen to a farmer and hear about the real world!


No farmer has lived in the real world in living memory, subsidies of all sorts have been a way of life as has complaints about them.
By cockney steve
#1674208
Before we joined the EEC, we had no wine-lake, no butter-mountains, no lorries trundling back- and-forth across the borders, collecting subsidies on the same load (butter, until it became too rancid!)

British farmers were selectively subsidised, thus our food production was tailored to our needs.
Now we pay administrators to send the money to Brussells, more administration to divide it up,
more administrators to send our share back, more administrators (DEFRA, who's incompetence has precipitated many a bankruptcy and suicides) to distribute the remainder to the farmers. It wouldn't surprise me if the greedy bankers didn't have their snouts in that trough, skimming-off their transfer-fees.

Notice a pattern? It's what , many years ago, I dubbed "synthetic work"

Lots of activity, lots of hustle and bustle , people sauntering around with wads of paper, people tapping away at keyboards, printers chattering away.....but nothing of any relative value being produced.

The re-introduced UK system,,,,,Administrators collect, apportion and redistribute subsidies. a much smaller number of farmers to deal with, so our existing staff can be retrained and the unwieldy heap of EC admin for the other 27 is eliminated from our system.
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By kanga
#1674213
johnm wrote:..ended in Alderney :D


Alderney (like the rest of the CI) is, of course, part of the Duchy of Normandy, still using Norman Law. A Guernsey acquaintance told me that they still refer to England [sic] as 'the Northern Colony' :)
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By johnm
#1674214
@cockney steve

The mountains and lakes were fixed ages ago and too many people have got used to year round availability of all sorts of food from supermarkets.

Going back to seasonal food availability and shortages is unlikely to go down well.

I wish people would stop looking back to some mythical good old days that never existed. Europe is pretty much self sufficient in a whole range of foods and is getting better at managing animal welfare and environmental impact. It also facilitates imports from poorer nations. It’s not perfect but it’s a damn sight better than 50 years ago.
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By Sooty25
#1674216
johnm wrote:
Sooty25 wrote:
I'd rather listen to a farmer and hear about the real world!


No farmer has lived in the real world in living memory, subsidies of all sorts have been a way of life as has complaints about them.


I suggest you spend a day with a small British farm owner, look at the administrative nightmare they have to contend with, and reconsider your comments. You clearly have no idea.
By johnm
#1674223
I think you may find that if you talk to the French about their systems and experiences you may come to realise why some of us believe that DEFRA stands for Department for the Elimination of Food and Rural Activities...... :D

Joking apart the U.K. as usual is happy to see big business and major landowners prosper at the expense of small operators. In other countries EU and national funding is also used to protect small operators and encourage youngsters into the industry. Very often through local (county level) initiatives rather than national centralisation as has become the norm in U.K.

CAP is certainly very imperfect but as usual U.K. implementation does nothing to improve things, quite the reverse.
Last edited by johnm on Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Bill McCarthy
#1674224
As Sooty says, the paperwork takes up more time than the hard labour that farming is. For instance - every animal has a unique number, every cow a passport etc etc. We have to record what we are growing, how much space we leave on field margins, how much fodder is left at a certain time of the year. Gove gave away to English farmers millions of £s that was distributed by the EU for Scotland - we didn’t see a penny of it.
If you are happy to see the price of food treble with the withdrawal of subsidies, then you may think again. The corruption and false subsidy claims within the EU are legendary.
Animal welfare standards in the U.K. are a damn sight higher than in any EU country - we abide by the rules.
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