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Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:45 am
by eltonioni
johnm wrote:
Leodisflyer wrote:What I don’t understand is why we are building lorry parks. If I’ve understood correctly then only a small fraction of the current UK lorry fleet will have permits to drive in the EU. Where are the lorries coming from that will need to be parked!


We’re back to point to point transport in both directions, so a U.K. truck loaded with goodies for Italy can go there, an Italian truck loaded with Parma Ham can come here, but if U.K. is a third country they will be subject to customs checks, so the trucks have to have somewhere to queue for those checks.

It’s only an issue if there’s no deal, so it’s contingency planning, there’s a lot of it about :roll:

Don't worry, the Italians are proposing a bilateral arrangement. Guy Verhofstadt will be more hopping mad than usual this morning.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ic-crisis/

Italy is drawing up emergency plans to safeguard financial stability and keep trade with the UK flowing even if there is a no-deal Brexit, if necessary through a bilateral deal between Rome and London.

The country’s insurgent Lega-Five Star coalition is increasingly worried that a mishandling of the EU’s Brexit crisis could push Italy's fragile economy into a dangerous downward slide and risk a funding crisis for its sovereign debt at a treacherous moment.

Premier Giuseppe Conte has told his Brexit Task Force to focus urgently on ports, airports, customs, and the handling of food trade, as well as the status of Italians living in the UK.

Palazzo Chigi, the prime minister’s inner machine, is exploring what Italy can do under its own authority to defuse the stand-off with Britain. While this is relatively straightforward for issues such as citizens’ rights, it is unclear how it would work in trade and finance where the EU sets the rules.

Both the Lega and Five Star movement have Eurosceptic roots and are irked by the Brexit strategy of the European Commission, seen as rigid, ideological, and potentially explosive.

“We want the closest possible bilateral ties with the UK and certainly don’t agree with any idea of punishment. You are our customer,” said Claudio Borghi, the Lega’s economics spokesman and chairman of the budget committee in parliament.

“Unfortunately we are not in charge of Europe, at least not yet,” he said.


Ettore Prandini, the head of Italy’s agro-industrial federation Coldiretti, said there were fears that a hard Brexit could devastate Italy’s long-established food exports to Britain. The UK is the country’s third biggest market for food products after Germany and the US.

“It is absolutely vital that we get a good accord. We have made big investments in the distribution network in the UK,” he said.

Italy’s food and drinks sector is already in crisis. Sales of fruit and vegetables have dropped 12pc over the last year due to cut-throat global competition.

“What worries us about Brexit is that exporters in the rest of the world will come in and undercut us. This is what happened after the Russia sanctions in 2014. The Turks grabbed our market share,” he said.

Coldiretti is concerned that suppliers in places such as South Africa, Kenya, or parts of Latin America will suddenly gain an edge in UK supermarkets.

If the UK were to opt for unilateral free trade to keep ports open in a no-deal scenario - as has been floated by Trade Secretary Liam Fox, at least as a temporary measure - it might lead to an irreversible loss of UK market share for Europe’s high-cost producers.

A confidential study by the pan-EU lobby FoodDrinkEurope estimates that Italy could see a 33pc drop in wine sales in Britain in a hard Brexit.

The body said annual EU exports of food and drinks to the UK are €41bn, against €17bn flowing in the opposite direction. “The exit of the UK from the EU without a deal will constitute a lose-lose situation for the entire agri-food chain. The impact will be immediate and harsh,” it said.



Blinking.

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:10 am
by johnm
Guy Verhofstadt hopping mad


Not a scene most of us recognise unless he’s been listening to Farage, then he’s not alone.

Nobody in their right mind on either side of the channel wants no deal, but the problem is now and always has been stupidity and intransigence in the Tory party, if that changes because the voice of reason eventually prevails we may yet salvage some credibility from this awful shambles.

I’m still trying to persuade the vikings to come back, but they’re more interested in the EU it seems :twisted:

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:13 am
by spaughty
Before getting too concerned about Italian food producers getting undercut by zero rate tariffs on imports of food into the UK, you might spare a thought for how UK food producers would cope. Especially as, unlike the Italians, almost all of their existing food exports would suddenly be hit by tariffs.

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:26 am
by Sooty25
spaughty wrote:Before getting too concerned about Italian food producers getting undercut by zero rate tariffs on imports of food into the UK, you might spare a thought for how UK food producers would cope. Especially as, unlike the Italians, almost all of their existing food exports would suddenly be hit by tariffs.


So are you saying food imported from non EU countries will potentially be cheaper post brexit?

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:30 am
by spaughty
Without a Trade agreement, that is the dilemma.
Which change do you want:
1) Zero rate import tariffs, British farmers go bankrupt.
2) 10-20% import tariffs, food prices go up, only some British farmers go bankrupt.

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:34 am
by eltonioni
spaughty wrote:Before getting too concerned about Italian food producers getting undercut by zero rate tariffs on imports of food into the UK, you might spare a thought for how UK food producers would cope. Especially as, unlike the Italians, almost all of their existing food exports would suddenly be hit by tariffs.

The two go hand in hand. This is kind of the point; that EU political federalist ideology has transcended individual and business needs, and it needs to stop.

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:46 am
by johnm
eltonioni wrote:
spaughty wrote:Before getting too concerned about Italian food producers getting undercut by zero rate tariffs on imports of food into the UK, you might spare a thought for how UK food producers would cope. Especially as, unlike the Italians, almost all of their existing food exports would suddenly be hit by tariffs.

The two go hand in hand. This is kind of the point; that EU political federalist ideology has transcended individual and business needs, and it needs to stop.


I’m sorry but yet again we hear vague undefined assertions with no evidence to back them up and it needs to stop.

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:52 am
by eltonioni
Come on John, the federalist agenda is in plain sight. If any evidence were needed then we need look no further than the EU President's own words and deeds.

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:54 am
by Sooty25
spaughty wrote:Without a Trade agreement, that is the dilemma.
Which change do you want:
1) Zero rate import tariffs, British farmers go bankrupt.
2) 10-20% import tariffs, food prices go up, only some British farmers go bankrupt.


It's not too difficult, you put tariffs on the food we can produce locally, and no tariffs on the food we can't. Subsidise UK farmers directly if necessary, rather than via Brussels. I can't imagine many UK orange and pineapple growers will suffer!

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:02 am
by eltonioni
Sooty25 wrote:
spaughty wrote:Without a Trade agreement, that is the dilemma.
Which change do you want:
1) Zero rate import tariffs, British farmers go bankrupt.
2) 10-20% import tariffs, food prices go up, only some British farmers go bankrupt.


It's not too difficult, you put tariffs on the food we can produce locally, and no tariffs on the food we can't. Subsidise UK farmers directly if necessary, rather than via Brussels. I can't imagine many UK orange and pineapple growers will suffer!


Hang on, that's the EU protection racket Common Agricultural Policy but without the admin topslice consumer safety protection racket fee.

;)

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:18 am
by spaughty
If you think "it's not too difficult", or we just save the "protection racket fee", can I suggest that you find out what Michael Gove has to say on the subject of "No Deal"?

He is not best known as a "Remoaner", but he is the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:22 am
by eltonioni
spaughty wrote:If you think "it's not too difficult", or we just save the "protection racket fee", can I suggest that you find out what Michael Gove has to say on the subject of "No Deal"?

He is not best known as a "Remoaner", but he is the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.
... and on the collective responsibility payroll of the Cabinet trying to get Mrs May's hapless and broken deal through Parliament with the assistance of Project Fear.


I am guessing that your tongue was as firmly in your cheek as mine was. :)

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:29 am
by spaughty
No, I was just hoping that there might be somebody, somewhere, that Leavers might listen to when they heard something that contradicted their views.

Obviously I was wrong!

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:42 am
by eltonioni
Don't assume that he's contradicting my views, I won't presume to speak for anyone else's views.

Re: Neverendum?

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:14 am
by kanga
johnm wrote:..
I’m still trying to persuade the vikings to come back, but they’re more interested in the EU it seems :twisted:


last time they came (to Southern England, at least) they had stopped off in Northern France for a couple of generations. We called them Normans. They have been quite influential on 'English' law, culture and language, but were the classic wave of 'illegal immigrants'. However, the winners write the history books, and they 'printed their own propaganda poster' (the Bayeux Tapestry) :)