Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By Leodisflyer
#1664159
Its fascinating. The deal on offer is the inevitable conclusion of the self-imposed red lines combining with the constraints of the legal process of Article 50, the sequencing that was agreed last year by David Davis and the legal structure of the EU, but tempered by a major concession from the EU.

The fact that it doesn't meet unrealistic expectations is not the fault of the PM. `the fact that it pleases nobody should be unsurprising when the largest minority view was for no change and the support for Brexit was formed from a coalition of smaller minority interests and desires that combined to a majority on the day.

People seem to be objecting to the deal as if it is a final outcome. It isn't, it's a withdrawal agreement that moves us to the next stage while giving us access to the EU market and protecting such things as national security.

There seems to be a lack of appetite from some for the next stage of negotiating a future trading relationship - or some other reason(s) for haste to achieve in months what other countries have spent up to 10 years on.

What is it about the ageing proponents of Brexit in Parliament, who have spent 40 years campaigning for us to leave, that they cannot wait another 10 years for a final settlement?
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By johnm
#1664162
Colonel Panic wrote:There is an implication there that people who voted Leave did so on the basis of insufficient information but those who didn't did so rationally.

Maybe if some of the 48% had thought some more before they voted they might have voted Leave after all?


Difficult to say, but at the risk of over-simplifying......most of the reasons I have heard for voting Leave are in the following categories:

1. misunderstanding about how the EU works and the UK's place in it.

2. An inability to see anything wrong with the UK, whereas any imperfection in EU is a reason to leave.

3. Fantasies about global free trade

4. Fantasies about sovereignty.

5. Confusing FoM and immigration and not understanding the related rules.

5. Desire to avoid the risk of the UK becoming a State within a US of E similar in structure to the US of A.


Most Remainers seem willing to accept that the EU and UK are imperfect but take the view that the benefits of membership and the opportunity to influence future direction outweigh the downsides.
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By Leodisflyer
#1664163
kanga wrote:Sheffield, of course, has a very new airport, very close to a HS2 station, all ready for use .. oh, wait :evil:

<snipped>



Naughty ;)

When HS2 does make it to Sheffield then Sheffield will return to being a few minutes away from an Airport (East Mids).
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By johnm
#1664165
Leodisflyer wrote:
kanga wrote:Sheffield, of course, has a very new airport, very close to a HS2 station, all ready for use .. oh, wait :evil:

<snipped>



Naughty ;)

When HS2 does make it to Sheffield then Sheffield will return to being a few minutes away from an Airport (East Mids).



Where electric aeroplanes will provide an easy and green route to the world :roll: HS2 might take a decade or three I fear......
By Leodisflyer
#1664167
@johnm while agree with you about the general population, we also risk straying into dangerous territory here as there was an excellent thread on this forum in 2016 that showed what people local to here were thinking and, if you were to draw up a list of what was driving many here, I think it would have different bullet points and read differently.

Pretty sure I've mentioned before that I know somebody who voted to leave because his wife works for the NHS and told him to. One person I knew, now sadly deceased, was one of the most intelligent people I have ever known, was extremely knowledgable about history and cultures, and her reason for wanting to leave was expressed as simply "I think we could do better on our own".
By Leodisflyer
#1664170
johnm wrote: <snipped>

Where electric aeroplanes will provide an easy and green route to the world :roll: HS2 might take a decade or three I fear......


Sadly I don't see many 500-1000 seat short range electric planes on the near horizon.

I also fear that the Brum-Leeds section of HS2, which arguably is the section that has the greatest immediate justification, will be delayed beyond 2035.
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By Mike Tango
#1664173
Colonel Panic wrote:There is an implication there that people who voted Leave did so on the basis of insufficient information but those who didn't did so rationally.

Maybe if some of the 48% had thought some more before they voted they might have voted Leave after all?


Everyone would have benefited from greater knowledge, clarity and truthfulness before and during the referendum process. The result may or may not have ended differently, but either way there likely wouldn't be the bitterness and divisiveness being seen now.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1664179
Colonel Panic wrote:There is an implication there that people who voted Leave did so on the basis of insufficient information but those who didn't did so rationally.

Maybe if some of the 48% had thought some more before they voted they might have voted Leave after all?


An interesting take on it but I don't see many people flocqueing* together such as 'the People's vote'

*to avoid an auto-donk
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1664193
Well it is 'leading by example' of sorts innit?
By johnm
#1664208
eltonioni wrote:It's still No Deal though. There's no mandate for anything else.


No deal is the legal default under Article 50. Whether there is a mandate for anything else is still under debate in Westminster.
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By PaulB
#1664211
Colonel Panic wrote:Maybe if some of the 48% had thought some more before they voted they might have voted Leave after all?


Wasn't there a list of the advantages of leaving a couple of pages back......

..... you’ll have to remind us (evidence based would be nice).
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By eltonioni
#1664213
johnm wrote:
eltonioni wrote:It's still No Deal though. There's no mandate for anything else.


No deal is the legal default under Article 50. Whether there is a mandate for anything else is still under debate in Westminster.

A national referendum, party manifestos, two general elections and legislation says there's a mandate.

I appreciate that lots of people don't like it, but it's the only thing that's guaranteed by law & mandate, so it's happening.
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By PaulB
#1664216
johnm wrote:
eltonioni wrote:It's still No Deal though. There's no mandate for anything else.


No deal is the legal default under Article 50. Whether there is a mandate for anything else is still under debate in Westminster.


There isn’t a mandate for anything is there? Non of the above says how leaving shall be achieved or when.

The referendum was advisory, both main parties have leave in their manifestoes.... Apart from the referendum where frankly the population was lied to and possibly influenced by external forces, there’s no mandate.

Remember, we were told that we’d have trade deals sorted with ease and that the E.U. would be a pushover because “they need us more than we need them”. Today at PMQs, they were talking about deals with The Maldives! Well, that’ll replace lost E.U. trade, won’t it?
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