Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

Moderator: Flyin'Dutch'

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By eltonioni
#1694449
johnm wrote:Much of the problem relates to confusion between the legally binding withdrawal agreement and the statement of future intent that is the political declaration.

Because there is no future deal in place the withdrawal agreement has to consider the scenario where the long term deal doesn’t make a seamless border on the island of Ireland automatic.

If the PM hadn’t ended up in hock to the DUP this might have been manageable without too much drama, as it is......

And why do you think that is? Because a lack of that, leads to this. It has always been a stitch up from within the EU (and some of the UK) to stop the UK from leaving.
By johnm
#1694505
Nope it's the way Article 50 was written by a Brit who never thought anyone would be daft enough invoke it.

Article 50 provides for a withdrawal agreement that includes the basis of a future agreement, but the logic is straightforward and goes as follows....

Withdrawal occurs under a legal agreement, this is followed by negotiation of an agreement of a new relationship between the EU and the new third country based on the intentions agreed alongside the withdrawal agreement. The other 27 have followed that process perfectly reasonably, the problem is that UK has no overall agreement internally to take the process forward because there is still no consensus on what form Brexit will take.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1694563
eltonioni wrote:
johnm wrote:Much of the problem relates to confusion between the legally binding withdrawal agreement and the statement of future intent that is the political declaration.

Because there is no future deal in place the withdrawal agreement has to consider the scenario where the long term deal doesn’t make a seamless border on the island of Ireland automatic.

If the PM hadn’t ended up in hock to the DUP this might have been manageable without too much drama, as it is......

And why do you think that is? Because a lack of that, leads to this. It has always been a stitch up from within the EU (and some of the UK) to stop the UK from leaving.


Sadly parts of the UK Population still think that the EU controls what the UK does. Even that the EU has any power over 'stopping' the UK from leaving.

:roll:

That the EU rather wished the UK wouldn't leave is clear - and that is for obvious reasons.

But if the UK would not have asked for an extension where do you think the UK would be now?
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By eltonioni
#1694567
Ah, we're back to the stupid part of "stupid racist bigot" are we? Funnily enough, I find the repetition of these tired old tropes to be very tedious, though I appreciate that they may be very comforting - special knowledge always is. What's even more tedious is that so many people are still living in a pre-referendum world.

I think we can do better gents.
By johnm
#1694569
The key to all of this is achieving a consensus on what Brexit looks like and that looks to be as far off as ever.

Very few people are willing to go with no deal at all on the table, many people do not seem understand the article 50 process and the way a legal withdrawal is followed by a further negotiation on a new relationship.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1694580
eltonioni wrote:Ah, we're back to the stupid part of "stupid racist bigot" are we? Funnily enough, I find the repetition of these tired old tropes to be very tedious, though I appreciate that they may be very comforting - special knowledge always is. What's even more tedious is that so many people are still living in a pre-referendum world.

I think we can do better gents.


Your words not mine.

If you stick to the facts (and please do provide them where they are in blaming the EU for not allowing the UK to leave) then there is no need for any repetition.
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By eltonioni
#1694581
What do you expect me to say when you say that I am stupid? I'm merely pointing out that you're still not listening, even with Nigel Farage taking four in ten votes. The facts suggest that it's not me that's stupid.

Revolutions come in all sorts of disguises.
By johnm
#1694590
We're seeing a complex picture and those who aren't listening are the two traditional main parties.

We are still in a scenario where roughly half the voting population want to stay in the EU and half want to leave.

Farage is the largely undisputed leader of Leaver tribe and there are a number of Remainer tribes who are trying to form alliances with varying degrees of success.

The problem for us all is that, for those who want to leave, there is no consistency in their view of the how or the why and nobody has a coherent proposal except HMG and theirs keeps being rejected.

There is no doubt either that some simply don't understand why the "how" needs to be complicated, but the fact is that it does, because there are so many things about everyday life that depend on our status as an EU state and that have to be re-engineered in some way if we aren't. This lack of understanding appears to apply to some vociferous MPs, who should know better, as well as Joe Public and Farage simply doesn't care because it's all a game to him and always has been.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1694598
eltonioni wrote:What do you expect me to say when you say that I am stupid? I'm merely pointing out that you're still not listening, even with Nigel Farage taking four in ten votes. The facts suggest that it's not me that's stupid.

Revolutions come in all sorts of disguises.


Where did I say you were stupid?

I asked you to provide credible evidence that the EU is blocking the UK's exit.

It is surprising that Farage only has 36% of the vote, he should according to his rhetoric have more than 50%.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1694677
Another blow to the EU Expansionist Agenda:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48328867

It said gun enthusiasts would not notice the new rules, while adopting them would allow Switzerland to retain its Schengen membership.
Officials said membership of the zone had been beneficial to the economy and to fighting crime.
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By Pete L
#1694701
The penny finally dropped as to why the arch-brexiters were so keen to get rid of May. With two party leaders who are leavers for different reasons, they can just run the clock down to zero and not ask for another extension. Which leaves us remainers hoping that the parliamentarians can manage to cobble together a no-confidence vote.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1694703
stevelup wrote:The Swiss had no real choice - it was either accept the dictat from Brussels or be kicked out of Schengen


Do we?
By johnm
#1694720
stevelup wrote:The Swiss had no real choice - it was either accept the dictat from Brussels or be kicked out of Schengen


The Swiss are not EU members and have an unusual history in respect of firearms. They have very sensibly taken the view that bringing their firearms culture closer to the rest of Europe to secure the benefits of Schengen makes sense. Looking forward rather than backward you see.
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By eltonioni
#1694747
And yet, there’s a bizarre suggestion for an EU aircraft carrier from a credible source- Merkel’s successor. What could possibly go wrong?

“As a next step, we could start the symbolic project of building an aircraft carrier to give shape to the role of the European Union as a global force for security and peace.”

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... t-carrier/
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