Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1653400
cockney Steve wrote:snip...
Why do we even need permanent speed -limits? (A= revenue-raisers and keeping control over the masses)

snip...

Most speed- limits are unchanged for over 1/2 a Century, when standards of driving and vehicles were much more basic.

snip...

one, who diverts massive resources to catching speeding motorists in victimless crimes, there are enough offences to level at the truly antisocial driver.


Round many speed limits have been changed. Residential areas are now largely 20 zones. Other 60 limits have changed to 40, some 40s have changed to 30.

I would argue that standards of driving are dropping. There was a time when driving was viewed as a skill-based task. Now people struggle to stay engaged with the task and look for diversions. On the M62 as soon as there is jam I can almost grantee that if I look in my mirror the driver behind will dig out their online and start browsing, e-mailing or texting,

Sadly people are still dying or being seriously injured when drivers exceed the limits and lose control of their cars or they simply plough into pedestrians and cyclists when they aren't paying attention or think that they know the rules better than others or that the rules don't apply to them.

30 years ago I had to go through the bits of kit that came back after two of my colleagues were killed in a head-on crash that killed 5. It was a very formative experience. Without going into detail, there was no escaping the reality of that happens to the human body in a crash. Speed was most definitely a factor.
#1653401
Rob P wrote:Despite the anecdotal stuff the fatality trend followed a steep downhill to 2011 and since has held level.

Rob P


Broadly true across the country, but not in Leeds.

KSI figures were rising up to 2008. They dropped sharply between 2008 and 2009 and then broadly flatlined to 2013. There was then a sharp rise in 2014. The 2014-2017 figures remain higher than at any time since 2008.

There is a theory that the 2008-2009 drop can, in part, be accounted for by lowered economic activity in that period.

Figures for 2014- 2017 were:

2014 - 334
2015 - 338
2016 - 331
2017 - 324

Leeds City Council target for 2017, based on a planned long term reduction from 2005, was 250.

Given that multiple fatalities occur in a single crashes it is difficult to tell at this stage what the current trend looks like.
#1653406
Looking at some of the antics on the motorways that I travel on it seems that many drivers think only of themselves and have precious little situational awareness regarding themselves or the drivers around them.
#1653407
skydriller wrote:My own view about the reduction is speed limits is that means drivers no longer concentrate on driving as they would have to if they were going quicker... :roll:



I do wish there was evidence for that but my observation of drivers on motorways at 70 mph plus is that they look little further than the end of the bonnet....
Rob P, PaulB, Nick liked this
#1653409
Little evidence 20mph speed limit reduces casualties, says report

The quote from BRAKE in that article doesn't seem at all considered, assuming it was sought as a response to the report rather than a generic statement.
#1653413
johnm wrote:I do wish there was evidence for that but my observation of drivers on motorways at 70 mph plus is that they look little further than the end of the bonnet....


My own observations of the new 80kph speed limit in France is that traffic now bunches up closer together, notably behind lorries, which now nobody will overtake as they are scared to break the speed limit by doing so. Then they sit there bored and tune out...
Charliesixtysix liked this
#1653418
Dave W wrote:Little evidence 20mph speed limit reduces casualties, says report

The quote from BRAKE in that article doesn't seem at all considered, assuming it was sought as a response to the report rather than a generic statement.



I agree it's education that's needed. The official speed limit through our village is 30 mph ( the default for houses I think) but anyone driving faster than about 15mph needs their head examined....
#1653422
Driving standards are low! people on here complain about poor RT lack of Airmanship.......yet the theory and practical knowledge-level required, would see about 70% of car-owners off the road.
That's the rub.....By applying minimal standards, the government ensures the NHS isn't swamped with road-casualties, but the level is high enough to maintain some level of prudence among the survivors, whilst generating road tax, fuel duty, new car sales and parts sales (duty and VAT) and allowing the pitiful inadequacy of public transport to continue and keeping the direct and indirect motor trade workers off the dole.

Oldham is populated with a high percentage of Asians. Werneth, particularly-so. You take your life in your hands driving through there! car in front meandering all over the place, erratic speed, sudden un-indicated turn, braking for no discernible reason, the sudden appearance of a car from a side-road, (no indicator, no stopping, just a waved -fist! ) Even given the low standards of the test, i'd lay odds on many of the local drivers never having passed one.
One wonders if the Leeds poor road -layout and abysmal signposting has anything to do with their accident -rate? I have visited on several occasions and, once you know where you're going, it's relatively easy, but, if not, it's russian roulette at each junction, en route. Travelling to Meanwood, I saw one sign, was in the wrong lane, carried -on, resorted to retracing after about 4 miles, many junctions and no further indication. I won't go there now unless i'm paid!
#1653436
skydriller wrote:My own view about the reduction is speed limits is that means drivers no longer concentrate on driving as they would have to if they were going quicker... :roll:


I agree with this, but only so far as in the reduction in speed, not speed limits.

I posted a record of a days driving in another thread. From memory is was around 200 miles in around 4-5 hours - all on motorways and dual carriageways.

The thing is that the roads are now so congested that it is no longer possible to proceed at the pace that was possible 20-30 years ago and, partly as a result, many people develop very bad habits distracting themselves with new technology.

In towns and cities there is the added problem of pedestrians being distracted - although there are also many people who are killed and injured by vehicles driving onto footways.

20 mph is a good speed in build up areas as the risk of killing people on impact is so much lower.
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