Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1653322
gasman wrote:My 'armchair view' is based on a 40 year career dealing with the devastating human consequences of (mainly) motorcycle accidents - a motor car is a lethal weapon when used against a scooter .


I sympathise with your viewpoint, gasman, because I know what you do for a living. There are four members of my flying club (that I know of) who do the same. Your "armchair view" is not what the rest of us would normally see.

However I also sympathise with the Police (and the judicial system in general).

In these cases they are playing a version of "touch tag", and the results are not the high-velocity injuries you might see pass your desk.

Rob
#1653325
Addressing poverty and inequality in society would be a start.
What about reversing the cuts to police numbers?
How about more visible policing on the streets?
Heaven forbid that we acknowledge that the present drugs policy is failing and fueling crime.


And re-opening - or building new institutions that used to house those that could not be safely allowed to live their live in mainstream communities. Most of these hospitals, secure units, mental institutions around here have been sold off to housing developers.

Doing this may help prevent odd bods wandering past your windows half dressed at odd hours, or stop those calls to the Police where those that were once treated in secure institutions from beating up their neighbours, threatening to slit their spouses throats, becoming uncontrollably drunk, etc etc that occupy so much Police time in our modern "do good" so called integrated society.
cockney steve liked this
#1653330
gasman wrote:
GAFlyer4Fun wrote:
What else can be done other than general public bystanders swarming a few thieves on mopeds at the scene of crime and sitting on them until the police arrive?


Addressing poverty and inequality in society would be a start.
What about reversing the cuts to police numbers?
How about more visible policing on the streets?
Heaven forbid that we acknowledge that the present drugs policy is failing and fueling crime.

Instead of knocking scrotes off their scooters why don’t we just shoot them?


Throughout history of the world there has always been poverty and inequality in society. There will always be someone that wants to be better or have more than those around them. That happens in other species as well as humans. It is the way of the natural world. There will always be alpha males and alpha females at the top of the food chain.

As for the drugs problem there will never be an easy answer. Some companies have introduced mandatory alcohol and drugs tests for new starters. Fail and no job. Also random testing in the job. Fail and no job. Maybe school kids need to be told this as a deterrent. (Good job equals good money equals buy house and lifestyle proportionate to income). Probably need some other way of making it not cool to dabble in underage drinking, smoking, drugs as that is the start of a slippery slope for many of those that try it. The homeless have less of a choice and more easily slip into drug culture.

I would guess that many getting into drugs thought they might be able to dabble with an inexpensive sample thinking they were physically and mentally strong enough not get addicted.
Addiction of most things not essential to life leads to lack of money.
Lack of money is probably a factor in many turning to crime to pay for food and a place to live.

There would still be crime without the drugs problem fueling it.

One thing is for certain, eventually everyone needs health care. Would it be a deterrent to crime if everyone with a criminal record or drugs habit had to pay for it up front from their personal bank account with funds traceable to be not from money laundering? It might shorten the health care waiting lists.

What would be the deterrent for those that attack emergency services personnel or their vehicles? Black list them from health care completely?

Back on topic, more police on the streets and on the roads would help. All costs money that many cannot afford. Same old story.
Flying_john liked this
#1653339
More police - definitely.

Across society we have problems because we prefer to employ machines to people (and I make a living from technology).

The problem is everywhere - e.g. a lack of police on the roads and reliance on speed cameras, which leads to people engaging in deeply unsafe driving, but trying not to get caught by speed cameras.

Even things as simple as car parks - reliance on barriers and cameras rather than people who have eyes and can help.

Removing manual jobs also has the side-effect of removing opportunities for those who need them.
Charliesixtysix, seanxair, Lockhaven and 2 others liked this
#1653346
Appears I might have been ahead of my time. Some years ago, as on off duty PC, I witnessed an aggravated theft, it occurred right in front of me while out shopping with my wife.

Big youth sees small youth riding a decent (pedal) bike; big youth grabs and threatens small youth and demands the bike, there's a scuffle, small youth was dismounted by big youth and thrown to ground, big youth rides off on the bike with small youth in pursuit shouting "he's nicked my bike".

I was out shopping with my wife, my action was instinctive, I ran after the big youth on the bike, as it happened within 50 yards I ran past my parked car. Accepting there was every chance I couldn't maintain the pursuit on foot I dived into the car. I followed big youth into a housing estate, after few hundred yards and a coupe turns the youth wasn't for stopping, he knew who I was and that I was after him, so I used my car to dismount him. I got out of the car, we had a "little scuffle" in the middle of the road; a neighbour called the police and I sat on top the youth until the police van arrived.

When we arrived back at the nick, my regular sergeant was working an overtime shift in the custody suite, he was delighted to see me bring in a customer on my day off, he was quick to take full credit for the incident because "he had trained me so well" :lol:

The youth was known to us, lifting him for this theft lead us to find several more nicked bikes, all obtained to fund drug use, also put us in touch with a couple of his associates and we even got a small time local drug dealer out of it.

The youth was bruised but not significantly harmed by my actions, the circumstances of his arrest were fully reported and never questioned; viewed by my seniors as a justified means to an end.

There are complex reasons behind the nature of today's problem which need dealing with but for which there does not appear to be a quick fix in terms of the causes. However operation Venice is, in my opinion, a justified means to an end in apprehending criminals in a way that hopefully serves as a deterrent in respect of a particular type of crime which become common place.
Last edited by avtur3 on Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
OCB, AlanC, Flying_john and 12 others liked this
#1653357
Leodisflyer wrote:The problem is everywhere - e.g. a lack of police on the roads and reliance on speed cameras, which leads to people engaging in deeply unsafe driving, but trying not to get caught by speed cameras.

Even things as simple as car parks - reliance on barriers and cameras rather than people who have eyes and can help.

The alternative view, is we have pretty much the safest roads on the planet (Sweden, some small islands with almost no cars and Monaco which have so few inhabitants the stats are insignificant) https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the ... world.html so the road policing techniques and systems work.
#1653362
It's a long time since I saw a traffic car bimbling down a motorway at fifty. I'm not sure that the situation has been changed by their absence?

Rob P
#1653367
Leodisflyer wrote:More police - definitely.

Across society we have problems because we prefer to employ machines to people (and I make a living from technology).

The problem is everywhere - e.g. a lack of police on the roads and reliance on speed cameras, which leads to people engaging in deeply unsafe driving, but trying not to get caught by speed cameras.

.


There has been a notable increase in mobile speed cameras on Suffolk's only 'motorway' (A14) in recent weeks.

I went past one at 80 last week early one morning on the way to Duxford. : Like a dick I had ignored the 'bong bong bong' from TomTom. I don't think I got my foot off the accelerator in time, but as six weeks have now passed I think I may have got away with it.

Certainly has made me keep a lookout and most times now when I go on the A 14 I spot a white van with its back door trap open.

Peter
#1653376
Rob P wrote:It's a long time since I saw a traffic car bimbling down a motorway at fifty. I'm not sure that the situation has been changed by their absence?

Rob P



It’s all Highways Agency up north too.

Smart motorways seem to have taken care of speeders. But they’re not smart enough to address undertaking, tailgating, unsafe loads, lack of lights, talking on a hand held phone, unbelted children, and all the other things I see.
Nick liked this
#1653383
Tailgating is one of my pet hates, but we are amateurs compared to the French who sit inches (or should that be centimetres) from your rear bumper, signalling left, while they wait for you to complete a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre.

I must confess to haven given way at least twice to the temptation to complete the overtake, pull over to the right and then wait until they* draw level and floor it so as to watch them recede into a dot in the rear view mirror.

Not clever, I know. But some days ... :pirat:

*Generally German marques, I leave the little Peugeots and Citroens alone.
Last edited by Rob P on Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1653387
^^^^^^^^^ Careless driving, reckless driving, dangerous driving, driving without due consideration to other road- users.....
Why do we even need permanent speed -limits? (A= revenue-raisers and keeping control over the masses)

So, we have Joe Bloggs being nicked at 2 AM on a motorway, otherwise deserted except for a patrol who decides to break up the boredom. Schools, with a 365-day 24 hour limit of 20 mph.- lazy administration and totally inappropriate for most of the time..
Come to Oldham and see the fascinating mixture of revenue-raiser bus-lanes.....some 7 am to 7 pm , some7-10 and 4 -7 some inc. Saturdays and Sundays, some inc, sat. ...then there are the "token "ones that merely keep a couple of hundred yards empty(and no bus routes off that stretch) only to dump the buses into the same bottleneck at either end (but the smug council cretins have met their target for bus lanes.......Yes, bike -lanes as well, pointless waste of space in the middle of nowhere, an arbitrary length, just plonked down and never used, as there are plenty of rarely-used footpaths out in the sticks ,that the risk-averse cyclists use.

Most speed- limits are unchanged for over 1/2 a Century, when standards of driving and vehicles were much more basic. Today's hatchback is faster than GP cars were, when limits were imposed. Free the Police for higher -priority POLICING...not as low-hanging fruit -pickers.....get rid of the mountains of paperwork as well, -selection is supposedly rigorous, they should be able and willing to "weed-out" their own bad-uns pay them to do a responsible job and let them get on with it and sack the Chief Constables like the Welsh one, who diverts massive resources to catching speeding motorists in victimless crimes, there are enough offences to level at the truly antisocial driver.
#1653397
Jim Jones wrote:
Rob P wrote:It's a long time since I saw a traffic car bimbling down a motorway at fifty. I'm not sure that the situation has been changed by their absence?

Rob P



It’s all Highways Agency up north too.

Smart motorways seem to have taken care of speeders. But they’re not smart enough to address undertaking, tailgating, unsafe loads, lack of lights, talking on a hand held phone, unbelted children, and all the other things I see.


This!

Over the last couple if years we've had:

- 5 deaths close to my house
- 1 friend with a broken neck due to being t-boned by a car at a roundabout
- 1 driver colliding with a group of cyclists - details of which I'll withhold in case there is a court case
- 1 person taken down and receiving life changing injuries due to being rear ended by a car

These are the ones where I've known, in some way, people involved. There have been many more. These include:

- An 18 year old pedestrian returning home from school, crushed by a car where the driver didn't negotiate a 90 degree bend.
- 4 dead and 2 seriously injured on the Leeds ring road in June
- Multiple other fatal crashes

The M62 near Leeds seems to have "accidents" nearly every day. There are also severe problems round here with close passing, red light jumping (generally, but not always youths in "hot hatches") and use of mobile phones while driving.
#1653398
Standards of driving are generally appalling, car occupant safety is MUCH better than when I started in the 1960s but traffic volumes are way higher and pedestrians and cyclists and horse riders much more vulnerable. Inappropriate speed for the conditions, a complete failure to plan ahead and anticipate and ill-mannered driving all conspire to make accidents more frequent than they need to be.


We're now having long range cameras deployed on the A417 through the Cotswolds, speed is part of its task, but it can also spot unbelted drivers and those on phone from a kilometre away apparently, so maybe it'll have an impact on the scrotes behind the wheel as well as the scrotes on bikes which started this thread......
Last edited by johnm on Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nick liked this
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