Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

Moderator: Flyin'Dutch'

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By JoeC
#1652043
Miscellaneous wrote:@johnm I looked at the Outback previously


Did you look at the Subaru Forester?

I had a petrol turbo and it had the grunt for overtaking and the (brilliant) 4x4 capability - proven one snowy evening I had to get back over the Pennines from Manchester.

It doesn't have anywhere near the finish of an Audi but was pleasingly understated (if you like wolf in sheeps clothing) and you won't worry about getting it muddy/scratched. This was a few years ago and I thought they were a bargain for the functionality and performance vs price. Not sure how the new versions perform.
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By Miscellaneous
#1652090
The turbo Forrester certainly has the grunt, but at 25mpg. :shock:

I think the compromises at this price bracket are probably a little too much. Inevitably I'm going to have to compromise so it'd probably make as much sense to compromise at a lower price bracket and at least not pay through the nose for something I don't really want, but need. Maybe a Focus isn't such a bad idea. :(

It's interesting to see the differences in discounts across the manufacturers on CarWow. It's proving not so see easy to use though as the cars it throws up vary in spec from each other and differ from what one enters.
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By Miscellaneous
#1652099
I'm not sure exactly what you mean there, rr, but I'm sure you're right. :thumleft:

Getting the exact spec is difficult too, it doesn't have an option to check the spec on the cars offered.
By riverrock
#1652123
With CarWow, when asking for quotes, you put in manufacturer and type, engine, trim and options (including colour). The quotes you then get back from dealers are against that specific spec. The examples (before you put full details in) are intentionally not specific, which is perhaps the stage you're at?

If you want clarification, you can then message individual dealers who have quoted. The ones I've messaged have all got back within a business few hours (some within minutes). Its useful once you've worked out what you want, as a start point for haggling.

With electric cars, to make CarWow sound better, the government grant is in the headline discount that CarWow has found (so that immediately means that "CarWow" can save everyone £3500 as that is the government grant...).

My point about the percentage, is some manufacturers add 7% to the factory price to get to a RRP (so a dealer would make 7% profit if they sold at the RRP). Others add different amounts. So for different cars, more dealer discount is available. Can be a bit of work to get that % number so to know how much to haggle :)
Some manufacturers (and probably specific chains) also have special "schemes" which can play with the price (scrappage schemes, finance schemes, etc) but CarWow wont go into that sort of detail. Hence why you may get additional discount by talking directly. In the end - its the amount of money you pay that matters - not what "scheme" you're on!
Of course, dealers have lots of ways of representing prices to suit themselves. I had one show me a printout (which of course I couldn't take with me) which said that they would make zero profit if they sold at a particular price (to convince me that the other dealership would be making a loss at the price quoted). I then had a third say that the same price (options, etc) would give them 1% profit, which to me seemed more honest (ok - oxymoron with car sales). The one that quoted "at a loss" then wouldn't honour price, take calls (etc) and "forgot" about agreed meetings, so the "at a loss" may have been true. Decided i didn't want to deal with someone like that anyway.

The advantage of CarWow is that its dealers from across the UK competing, which saves you a lot of initial phoning around. I ended up getting a dealer in Ayr who wasn't in CarWow to better a price that a dealer on South coast of England (so lower delivery costs) quoted at via CarWow. The Ayr dealeralso knew the systems well enough to reconfigure a car already in production rather than starting configuring a car from scratch, which brought the delivery date in by 2 months, compared to the 5 other dealers I spoke to.

2nd hand market is of course a different ball game entirely.
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By Miscellaneous
#1652135
riverrock wrote:With CarWow, when asking for quotes, you put in manufacturer and type, engine, trim and options (including colour). The quotes you then get back from dealers are against that specific spec.

Ah, I see. Given the difference in price I thought they must all be different specs. In fact there is one showing zero discount and the list price shown does not include the options I requested. :? Maybe a rogue quote?

riverrock wrote:I had one show me a printout (which of course I couldn't take with me) which said that they would make zero profit if they sold at a particular price (to convince me that the other dealership would be making a loss at the price quoted). I then had a third say that the same price (options, etc) would give them 1% profit, which to me seemed more honest (ok - oxymoron with car sales). The one that quoted "at a loss" then wouldn't honour price, take calls (etc) and "forgot" about agreed meetings, so the "at a loss" may have been true. Decided i didn't want to deal with someone like that anyway.

When I picked up my Audi from Preston Audi, ie the deal was done, the sales manager let me see the deal sheet which did show a significant loss, although I don't remember the figure. They were making their money on the target bonus along the lines of, an additional £500 per car if a target number is achieved.

Looking at how low the discounts are on some models I'd be very disappointed if I couldn't achieve that without CarWow. That said it is a useful tool to get a measure of where one should be aiming.
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By Miscellaneous
#1653190
Well, the gearbox has so far behaved itself since its little issue and hopefully it will do this week as it's some work to do.

Nevertheless having had the thought we should look at cars we decided to do so. What a confusing displeasurable experience (I don't like shopping of any kind).

Being rather cheesed off spending on cars we decided to go down market and headed off to the Skoda dealership. Oh dear, not so inexpensive whilst certainly feeling cheap. No need to drive it.

Truth is there is nothing inexpensive for our requirements.

I looked at a pick up, would like it, but that would be selfish.

We had no plans of looking at VW, however we some how ended up having a test drive in a Tiguan. Surprisingly I quite liked it and felt I could live with it. Seems their branding and models are a bit all over the place.

Keeping the let's try something different theme going we ended up driving the Volvo XC40, turns out it is a new model which is very successful and is not attracting big discounts. Needless to say the D4 190hp (but efficient) model I spec'd is rather expensive. I'd never heard of the XC40. Does anyone have one who can advise what it's like to live with?

And now having got in to carwow I'm getting a feel for how it works and what discounts are available across brands. It really is amazing how the discounts vary across dealerships.

From playing with carwow I've discovered I could actually put a Merc GLC 220d on the road for less than my preferred lower RRP XC40, or the Tiguan. :roll

Now all that said the most surprising conclusion, despite all the hype about electric, hybrid and the shift to petrol, is that for us diesel is still the right decision, at present. Whist our requirements are certainly not the norm I can't help but wonder if folks are getting carried away on a big green wave without properly thinking things through?:

For avoidance of doubt that remark is not directed at any highly intelligent and thoughtful fellow forumites. Just the great unwashed. :D
By johnm
#1653200
That's an interesting insight into the problem and it's a picture that is very similar to my situation when having to buy a car. (I make few purchases that are not distress purchases, as I too detest shopping in all its forms)

When I bought the Subaru I was following my standard pattern of looking for a reasonably low mileage three year old. I always consult Mrs Johnm and her decisions are usually cosmetic and irrational in other ways, but cannot be ignored.

This took us to three choices: Skoda Scout, Honda CR V and Subaru Outback. We went to Aylesbury which happened to have dealers for all three brands. The decision was process was as follows:

Skoda OK but a bit basic so parked while we looked elsewhere
Honda, Mrs Johnm hated the salesman :roll:
Subaru, didn't have what we wanted, but let us test drive a Legacy to get the feel of it and then went hunting round the dealer network and found one that looked suitable. They brought it from Sheffield we test drove it and bought it, a high spec Outback for the price the Skoda lot wanted for the basic Scout.
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By rikur_
#1653208
I used to choose cars based on the car.
9 years ago we stumbled upon using a local family owned dealership - I was so happy with how they've looked after us compared to previous experiences, that I've stuck with them and hence a specific manufacturer as a result.
Generally we get 6 - 12 month old vehicles, which he'll source according to spec, and then replace at 4 year old. Any problems we've had have just been dealt with without quibble - e.g. we had an EGR valve go 3 months out of warranty, but he still did it as a warranty item. Despite being 10 miles away from the dealership, he'll pick-up/drop-off at my convenience (e.g. courtesy car on my drive before 7.30am ready for me to leave for work).
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By Miscellaneous
#1653210
I had intended to look at the Subaru, however the dealership wasn't local to where the others are. IE a different town.

johnm wrote:Subaru, didn't have what we wanted, but let us test drive a Legacy to get the feel of it and then went hunting round the dealer network and found one that looked suitable. They brought it from Sheffield we test drove it and bought it, a high spec Outback for the price the Skoda lot wanted for the basic Scout.

Discovering one can buy a bigger car with higher RRP for less than the model below from a competing manufacturer has certainly thrown a spanner in the works. :?

To put some numbers on it;

XC40 D4 (with a £1575 extras)….£39295 best discount to £36795. (many dealers say no discount at all)

GLC220d (with £750 extras)……..£40240 best discount to £33034.

So is the Volvo worth paying an additional £3761 for? :shock:

After all once we buy a car it just becomes our car and we get on and drive it without much thought…well maybe not if we have a Skoda. :wink:

I'm just about back to square one. I have never had, or even considered a Merc, but playing with carwow has me wondering. The Volvo fuel consumption for that size of car/engine is quite something though.

Other than pricing I'm surprised that I had my mind changed back from my decision to buy petrol, it just doesn't make sense. That may be because the manufacturers haven't quite switched yet and it may be we will see fuel prices being manipulated in the future, but for now.
By johnm
#1653239
plus7g wrote:I would go with the Merc ( And I bet it will be a Merc next - and next - and next.......)


We've had three a 300E when they were solid and reliable and used as taxis all over the world, a 1997 SLK which was a rust bucket and had rubbish electrics but engine (apart from a head gasket failure) gearbox etc good and now a 2007 SLK, so far so good......
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By mossie
#1653241
Flyingfemme wrote:Hmmm.....we have an old (2003) A8 that shows electrical gremlins when it has a battery it doesn't like. An employee fitted a (cheap) replacement battery a few years ago and weird things started to happen on random electrical stuff. A visit to the local Audi specialist yielded the info that Audis like OEM batteries which speak to the onboard computer in some way - otherwise things start going wrong for no apparent reason. Another "new" battery fixed all the problems magically and they haven't come back.
Reactions from traffic are similar to that experienced by Mrs JohnM - but ours is a 4.2 litre petrol Quattro!



I've just replaced the origanal battery on my `12 year old C Class Merc. Getting all sorts of erronious errors, and some strange gearbox behaviour. The battery was not holding a full charge, despite the alternator pumping out the required. Everything went back to normal with the new battery. Car started fine on the old one and gave no indication that it was becoming toast.

Worth the 10 minutes with a meter.
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By Miscellaneous
#1653246
plus7g wrote:I would go with the Merc ( And I bet it will be a Merc next - and next - and next.......)

It's difficult to financially justify buying any of the other smaller, and generally less well spec'd, cars against the Merc. I registered on the website for a 48hr test drive, as yet they have not been in touch.

Actually it's impossible to financially justify any of the aforementioned cars and I certainly had no intention of anything the size of the Merc.

So much for going cheap. :roll:

I'm intrigued to see what happens. :lol:

I also have to be very mindful of trying to put a new syndicate together, although looking at cars has made a 5th or 6th share in an aeroplane seem reasonable. :D
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By Rob P
#1653248
Miscellaneous wrote:... it may be we will see fuel prices being manipulated in the future, but for now.


Differential at a BP on the A10 was 11p per litre this morning

Rob P
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