[PaulB]

So.... I realise this article in The Spectator is trying to sell a book...
and that this is perilously close to politics.... and it mentions the "B??xit" word, so behave......

.....the UK has — for a variety of cultural, social, and economic reasons — set up our public life so that the chancers are best suited to the system, and are most likely to rise to the top.

This is what you might call the British bluffocracy. We have become a nation run by people whose knowledge extends a mile wide but an inch deep; who know how to grasp the generalities of any topic in minutes, and how never to bother themselves with the specifics. Who place their confidence in their ability to talk themselves out of trouble, rather than learning how to run things carefully. And who were trained in this dubious art as teenagers: often together on the same university course.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/the ... -chancers/

So, is it true? Is it (largely) the fault of PPE @ Oxbridge? If so what can we do to redress the balance?

[Charles Hunt]

Emigrate.

[johnm]

Yes it's true, I've been saying so for a long time, but I'm not as articulate as these two. It's not entirely the fault of PPE at Oxford, it's the fault of that sort of training and the sound bite approach to political discussion that the media have fostered on the assumption that attention span of a listener, viewer or reader is measured in milliseconds. It's also the fact that politics is now a viable career in its own right, so nobody who's had a proper job and has a sense of public service takes it on any more. Local Councils have the same malaise which is why they have huge budgets but can't actually do anything anymore.

[PaulB]

Emigrate.

I’m not a bluffer, so my emigrating would only make it worse?


.... oh, OK, then.... where to?

[Miscellaneous]

I'd agree with the assertion, it does rather sadden me. However, as far as I can ascertain as long as the majority of those governed are left with enough resource and freedom to 'be getting on with' they will continue to accept Bluffocracy.

As one keen to seek out the opinion of others and never shy to ask a question, may I ask a question of you?

Can you explain your fondness of the word so? I'm genuinely curious.

Another example.

viewtopic.php?p=1630767#p1630767

[lobstaboy]

Nothing wrong with leaders having a wide but shallow knowledge. But it goes wrong (is now) when they don't know that and don't have experts to breif them, or wilfully dismiss expert advice when it's offered.

John's point about career politicians is correct. Having never lived or worked in the real world they don't know what they don't know.

I'm speaking as one of the ignored experts.

[Miscellaneous]

Having never lived or worked in the real world they don't know what they don't know..

I'm sure I know what you mean, however the concept of the 'real world' is somewhat meaningless in reality.

Every individuals world is real to them, whether it's Beckham, Trump, Arthur Williams, you, or me. Believing one's real world is the only real world and those you don't approve of live in an unreal word, is problematic when trying to rationalise, or understand such concepts as Bluffocracy.

[PaulB]

I'm speaking as one of the ignored experts.

Is that because they often wouldn’t recognise an real expert if they fell over one?

“Expert” seems to be a widely over used term in the media at the moment. Bluffers think they know what an expert is, but in reality, most don’t and if they do, wouldn’t understand what they were being told.

[Charles Hunt]

Emigrate.

I’m not a bluffer, so my emigrating would only make it worse?


.... oh, OK, then.... where to?

I'm looking at Italy at the moment.

[PaulB]

Can you explain your fondness of the word so? I'm genuinely curious.

No idea.... it's quite conversational as my "prose" tends to be.

[PeteSpencer]

Can you explain your fondness of the word so? I'm genuinely curious.

No idea.... it's quite conversational as my "prose" tends to be.

It must be the Frenchman in him.
'So = 'alors', which as you know the French use to begin every conversation.....

Pierre.

[kanga]

,,politics is now a viable career in its own right, so nobody who's had a proper job and has a sense of public service takes it on any more....

.. in some Parties ..

Without wishing to be Partisan, I think one reason why the minority Party Ministers performed relatively well in the last Coalition, and (in my opinion) improved shared policy by their influence, is that in general many of them did have some pre-politics 'hinterland'. The same may be true of SNP Ministers when they were first in power at Holyrood, and Plaid ones when they were in Coalition, but I haven't studied those as closely as I have Westminster.

There are, of course, MPs of the two main UK Parties who also have such 'hinterland', entering national politics only in mid- to late-careers, although sometimes from local politics. However, it seems rarer for them to attain higher Ministerial posts. Perhaps the managers of those Parties think the younger ones (ie, the career ones) will be more 'telegenic'.

[johnm]

The age of the triumph of form over substance perhaps.....

[matthew_w100]

Well I've just run my eye down the list of Cabinet ministers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_o ... ed_Kingdom). As far as I can see only three didn't have real world jobs prior to politicianing. And most of them rose to pretty substantial director-level positions before getting elected. They are all academically gifted and have been high achievers all their lives.

Sadly they are, in the main, presented as vacuous muppets while in government. Of course, as soon as they retire and move on they are mysteriously transformed into urbane, gifted statesmen of high intellect and drive.

I think we have to accept that it is our adversarial political system, our press, and ultimately we the people who force them into the temporary mould of self-serving bluffers.

[profchrisreed]

I'm in the "ignored expert" category, but that's OK.

Political debate is mainly about positioning one's faction (not party, as I think should be obvious at present) against other factions. Experts aren't useful here, unless we provide soundbite ammunition. And soundbites can't accurately encapsulate expertise.

But one day there will be a political imperative that Something Must Be Done, and the bluffocracy will look around to find out what that Something is. That's where we come in.

So I've spent time and effort contributing to the House of Lords inquiry into Artificial Intelligence, on how AI should be regulated. That will receive little attention until the day when the search for Something starts, at which point my views are out there in a hard to ignore form.

If I got involved with the positioning side of politics I'd be distracted from my real work and frustrated by lack of achievement. So I leave that to the PPE gang.