Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.

Moderator: Flyin'Dutch'

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#1681397
The inverter is co-located with the panels, so it is DEFFO a/c cable. The quote / invoice says "Solar Flex 4.0mm plus 10mm x 140m cable", and stamped on the outside of the armoured cable is "PK ELECTRIC CABLE 600/1000 V BS 5467" See https://www.basec.org.uk/cables/#BS-5467 . But I agree that none of this confirms the diameter of the internal wires. I had the thing professionally installed and signed off, so will ask them for more info &/or do a physical check.

Do I take it from your maths above (which I do accept is based on limited info) that if the existing is 4mm if I extend with 10mm I could charge at 16A, but if the existing is 10mm if I extend with the same & I could then charge at 32A?

@riverrock - I think you are right with the music - almost certainly #3. The very wet behind the ears (but very pleasant) salesman said it was something to do with the motor &/or regenerating brakes, both seemed unlikely.

EDITED TO ADD: On a secondary invoice it says the wire is "10mm SWA", so I am tempted to think the internal wires are 10mm.

EDITED TO ADD MORE: One reason to want to max out the max charging amps in the garage is for future proofing for when and if we ever become a 2 car BEV family. :pale:
#1681420
@riverrock One additional question; with a Tesla AIUI one can tell the car to
a) delay the start of charging to a certain time (for example from midnight) and
b) charge at a certain kW rate, and
c) to stop charging at a specified % full battery.

Does the Zoe software allow one to do something similar when connected to Renault's "free" Chargemaster 7kW Homecharger? Or is it just a matter of plugging it in and it just charges until it is unplugged?

TIA
#1681428
For other potential EV owners, some thoughts from test driving a Renault Zoe today...

It was certainly a mistake going for a test drive in a Tesla. From that I half expected to be equally impressed with any BEV but the reality is that whilst pleasant the driving experience of a Zoe is not dissimilar from, say, my wife's current car, a MINI.
Acceleration is more akin to a 2CV - sufficient but underwhelming.
From a financial perspective one is paying a load of money for the benefit of "going green"; it is still notably cheaper to drive a petrol car if total cost of ownership is taken in to account.
I was surprised how nice the Zoe was - plastic, yes, but way better than Renaults used to be. The ride was great for a small car, giving a much smoother ride than a MINI on our semi-rural roads.
The range of the Zoe is significantly better than the BMW i3 - more than adequate for us.
The Zoe has one level of regenerative braking - it would be nice if this could be changed.
The position of the heated seat switch is beyond a joke - somewhere down around your ankle.
I was surprised how large the "motor" is - probably bigger than all of the gubbins under a MINI bonnet, and way bigger than the horizontally mounted Tesla stuff. No room for a frunk at all !
I had forgotten just how "cottage industry" the Renault dealerships are - a far cry from the swish MINI or other brands I have recently dealt with.
#1681434
How does it compare with the i3 otherwise (than range)?
#1681436
Colonel Panic wrote:Does the Zoe software allow one to do something similar when connected to Renault's "free" Chargemaster 7kW Homecharger? Or is it just a matter of plugging it in and it just charges until it is unplugged?

TIA


First gen Leaf managed charging, preheating and precooling via a phone app. Since Nissan and Renault are joined at the hip I'd be very surprised if the current Zoe wasn't the same general system

Rob P
#1681466
Unlike the i3 the Zoe is not quirky - just a "normal" small car. If you just sat in it you wouldn't know it was a BEV. So it doesn't feel different or something of the future, which I suppose can be good or bad. I probably prefer the i3 but suspect the i3 is more expensive - but I haven't checked. [The Zoe is about £27k new inc battery, or £20k plus a ~£90pcm leased battery) whereas the i3 is "from" £35k, so in a different league]. The Zoe would be an easier choice / easier sell to an uninterested in EV user (thinking's Mrs Panic here).

I also suspect that for many, me included, a non Rex i3 would not be very useful due range limitations, and TBH I am not really inspired by a hybrid, so that pretty much rules out an i3 for us.

The Zoe can be preheated via a phone app, but not sure if the system is sophisticated beyond that.
#1681473
I paid (after gov subsidy) 17.5 including heated seats, alloy paint, bose sound and battery bought outright. Wait time was about 2 months. Got it end of January. Prices went up after I bought it but not that far.

You can set start and end times for charging via app or through screen in car, although the app/website is poor (and it only allows you to set up to a week in advance so you need to set it up again each week). Access to the app is included for the first few years, then they start charging.
I don't think you can stop at a certain % (not sure why you'd want to).
You can pre-heat via app or keyfob.

Should say, the Zoe has apparently the most advanced battery management / protection system on the market which should keep up the battery health for many years (mine is guarenteed for 8 years to 65% I think, and I haven't heard of any which have had to be replaced due to running out of health). Includes cooling via aircon system, heating the battery using aircon system and a 1kw bar heater (when temperatures are below 5degC), balancing systems, auto slow down of charge if too warm etc. Many of the other cars on the market have none of those (standard air flow cooling only). Renault say there is no benefit to only charging to 80% - may as well fill up.

On regen, taking foot off the accelerator feels pretty similar to taking your foot off in an ICE with engine braking. However the brake pedal does additional regen, with pads and drums only used when braking very heavily, when nearly stopped and to improve initial braking response (so if you brake smoothly it will be all regen). You can feel the brakes taking over from regen as you come to a halt.
Colonel Panic liked this
#1681482
The i3 REx is dead - they don’t do it any more. The new 120Ah one does 192 miles WLTP.

The Zoe does 0-60 in 11.9s, the i3 in 6.9s - they’re not directly comparable. That’s a heck of a difference in performance.
By avtur3
#1681488
riverrock wrote: .... Renault say there is no benefit to only charging to 80% ......


My understanding from what I've read (I may have misunderstood) is that the 80% figure so frequently quoted is the upper limit of fast charging and when exploring the full capacity of the battery the charging rate can slow quite noticeably once 80% is reached.

So if you want a stop n charge, pee and coffee type break you get the best out of fast charging up to 80%; to make use of the upper 20% of charge takes a disproportionately longer time.

Which suggests that when looking at longer journeys where on route charging is to be used the range between charges is most likely to explore 20% to 80% of battery capcity.

In-laws have an i3RX but it is only ever used around town and (slowly) charged at home via household 13A outlet, so the above doesn't apply to them.
#1681522
I understand that this isn't a simple curve - no one size fits all.
At 7kw its linear to 99% when battery balancing starts (this last 1% is quicker on models with a battery managenent software update).
At higher rates it depends on various things such as battery temperature. If starting cold, its pretty much linear to above 90% in a Zoe at 22kw charging.

Graph is for a Q90:
Image

Renaults's graph is on this page:
https://www.speakev.com/threads/r90-v-q ... mes.74249/

If batteries are warm, as in, you've been motorway driving or its a hot day, it will taper off more, but as you'll probably be getting an R110 which charges at max 22KW, there is less tapering.
The 80% figure is mainly used for comparison due to the leaf having a clear taper at that point, as in certain versions it didn't have active battery cooling (not sure about later models).
Colonel Panic liked this
#1681534
From what I have seen & read re: Tesla battery management, they suggest you only ever charge to 90% unless you NEED to top up for a long journey. Continually charging to 100% will degrade the battery more quickly.

Going back to whether to buy or lease a Zoe battery, the lease cost is approx 1p/mile (assuming you do the exact contracted for mileage), with an 8p/mile fee if you go over. I understand that transferring the Lease to a new owner is relatively straight forward, but I can't see what happens if you wrote off the car - presumably Renault would come after you for a £7,200 battery :(
#1681668
Colonel Panic wrote:From what I have seen & read re: Tesla battery management, they suggest you only ever charge to 90% unless you NEED to top up for a long journey. Continually charging to 100% will degrade the battery more quickly.

Going back to whether to buy or lease a Zoe battery, the lease cost is approx 1p/mile (assuming you do the exact contracted for mileage), with an 8p/mile fee if you go over. I understand that transferring the Lease to a new owner is relatively straight forward, but I can't see what happens if you wrote off the car - presumably Renault would come after you for a £7,200 battery :(

The fully comp car insurance you take out needs to include the battery. Most of the big insurers know this and it isn't an issue apparently, but certainly worth checking. To me it would have made sense to include the insurance with the lease agreement but I don't think thats the case.

As I say - the battery management system in the Zoe apparently protects the battery pretty well so no need to stop at 90%.
Traditionally with lithium ion batteries (the ones in phones / tablets / laptops), they degrade on each charging cycle and if they are held at high charge for a long period of time. Renault has used a different Lithium Ion technology (with partner LG Chem) to sacrifice some capacity for longevity.
Colonel Panic liked this
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