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Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:53 pm
by Colonel Panic
Do employers ordinarily charge their employees for plugging a car in, or does that cost (to the business) just get lost in the system in the way that charging up a mobile or laptop does? Has HMRC made any "rulings" yet?

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:55 pm
by Colonel Panic
To answer my own question, if the employee owns the car and the commute is deemed private mileage and the company does not charge for the electricity then yes, HMRC do want to know about it re: BiK.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:35 pm
by JonathanB
My company charges for the time you're plugged in - £1 for the first hour (however long) then the equivalent of £1/hour but on a per-minute basis. Bloody annoying when you know the car has finished charging but you can't get out to move it off the charger... It's debateable whether it's cost effective really - if I swapped to a BEV then I probably would have enough range not to bother charging at work.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:12 pm
by Colonel Panic
What sort of kW is it charging at during that period?

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:33 pm
by JonathanB
Well the PHEV has a max of 3.6kW iirc, but the chargers can do 22kW. Costs me on average about £2.50 to charge at work.

Edit to add: Today's charge averaged at 3.11kW for a total of 7.77kWh and cost £2.49. I believe the car slows down the kWs as the battery nears capacity.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:32 am
by kanga
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:.. - hate charging at Fuel Stations with a passion.


which fuel stations offer a passion ? :wink:

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:57 pm
by MikeB
JonathanB wrote:Edit to add: Today's charge averaged at 3.11kW for a total of 7.77kWh and cost £2.49.


That's pretty expensive at 32p/kWh. My home Leccy rate is abt 12p/kWh - I wouldn't bother charging in work at those rates unless I needed to for range purposes.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:17 pm
by JonathanB
I guess it would work out cheaper for a BEV which can charge more quickly. As I said, it's debatable as to whether it's worth it, but it does save me more regular trips to the petrol station...

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:44 pm
by Colonel Panic
Perhaps some Renault Zoe users could answer a couple of quick questions ...

    If I bought a Zoe (cash) but leased the battery (@ x,000 miles a year), what would happen if I sold the car in, say, Year 3? The salesman said that the new owner would have to sign up for a new battery lease (at a miles per year of his choosing, up or down), and I can then just cancel my lease. That almost sounds too good to be true, so wonder if it is.

    I noticed a weird "bell" type noise when at very low speeds - like some Tibetan monk was high on ganja. Have to say that I found it both odd and unpleasant. Do other owners find this irritating, or does one learn to ignore it?


And an electrical question ...

    I half understand that the number of amps one can put down a wire is dependant on diameter, and the number of amps that arrive at the other end is dependant on length. If I need to extend a pre-existing (buried) cable of, say, 16A rating that is 60 metres long, would putting a fatter cable for the additional 20 metres increase the amount of amps that arrive at the far end of the 80m, or does it not work like that?

TIA

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:51 pm
by stevelup
The issue with cable length -vs- cross section is voltage drop. You'll still have the same voltage drop over the existing 60M length regardless of how massive the additional piece is.

So yes, theoretically, you can do this (albeit unconventional) thing. It all depends how close to the limit the original cable is.

Do you know the exact length, and exactly what kind of cable is already there?

You might even be fine to extend it with the same size...

The voltage drop ultimately is what limits the allowable final current in the design.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:05 pm
by Colonel Panic
I am not sure what the inside diameter of the cable is, but I think it is called "Solar Flex 4.0mm plus 10mm AC cable". Working from Google Earth, the existing cable is ~45 metres long and I would be extending it by a further ~12 metres.

Whilst doing this extra work I'd like to enable the maximum EV charger rate that is possible.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:09 pm
by stevelup
That cable description doesn't make much sense I'm afraid. It sounds like flexible DC cable for solar panel connections?

It's the stuff you'd run from solar panels to the inverter. It's not armoured, and certainly not suitable for direct burial.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:15 pm
by riverrock
Colonel Panic wrote:Perhaps some Renault Zoe users could answer a couple of quick questions ...

    If I bought a Zoe (cash) but leased the battery (@ x,000 miles a year), what would happen if I sold the car in, say, Year 3? The salesman said that the new owner would have to sign up for a new battery lease (at a miles per year of his choosing, up or down), and I can then just cancel my lease. That almost sounds too good to be true, so wonder if it is.

I bought mine outright. However from what I hear - yes. You contact Renault to cancel, the buyer contacts Renault to setup a new arrangement. I hear that cancelling is quick, setting up a new arrangement is slow, which suits the buyer!
If they don't setup an arrangement, Renault can remotely stop the car charging. I don't know what that looks like (I have not heard of anyone who its happened to) but Renault should be able to push messages to the onboard screen, so I would expect the warnings to be pretty obvious.

I noticed a weird "bell" type noise when at very low speeds - like some Tibetan monk was high on ganja. Have to say that I found it both odd and unpleasant. Do other owners find this irritating, or does one learn to ignore it?

Below a certain speed, Zoe outputs a sound from a speaker to warn pedestrians ("Zoe Voice"). There are three options to choose from by holding down a dedicated button. I can't remember which one I've ended up with, but it just felt "right". I suspect it is number three on this list:
https://soundcloud.com/renaultze

It is possible to turn it off for a journey, but I think it turns on again next start (it does remember which "voice" you chose). The sound now feels natural to me.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:16 pm
by Colonel Panic
When I sited my solar panels in a field I buried two identical cables in case I ever wanted to install a second set of 4kW panels, which are ~130 metres from the house. I want to T into / divert the unused one mid length as it goes past the back of the garage. They are certainly armoured. I half think the 4mm and 10mm referred too the earth diameter (4mm) and the live & neutral diameters (10mm), but I could well be wrong.

Re: So, I just bought another one (LEAF)

PostPosted:Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:20 pm
by stevelup
Hmm, interesting. Well, let's work on 4mm as the cable size because for now it's not clear.

Total length will be 67M

67M x 0.012 x 16A = 12.86V drop - unacceptable - the limit is 9.6V

Your existing 45M run

45M x 0.012 x 16A = 8.64V drop - just acceptable.

So, let's see if you can do the other 12M in something bigger.

4mm @ 45 x 0.012 x 16 = 8.64V
6mm @ 12 x 0.0073 x 16 = 1.4V
Total = 10.04V - so bust

4mm @ 45 x 0.012 x 16 = 8.64V
10mm @ 12 x 0.0044 x 16 = 0.84V
Total = 9.48V - so you're in

It feels dirty though... and it's certainly unconventional!

If the two main conductors really are 10mm, then that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

10mm @ 67 x 0.0044 x 16 = 4.72V

You could even do 32A

10mm @ 67 x 0.0044 x 32 = 9.44V

But I have reservations about the whole thing. I'm not sure it's acceptable to use that cable for mains purposes. It's designed for a different application altogether. You'd need to check.

Your inverter is at the house? Or by the panels?