For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1785537
I really need to crack on and sort out my Ioniq replacement for October. Looking at another Ioniq but the BEV, but the Premium SE is quite a bit more than the Premium on lease. A leaf is the option. Shame a Tesla is a bit more than I need to spend really (ballpark of £350 a month).
#1785573
Well I hope you have better luck than me. I'm still waiting for my new Leaf, was supposed to be April , then June now July 30th, still no word :-(((

Thinking of cancelling the order and looking elsewhere for an alternative.
#1785583
stevelup wrote:Mat Watson's one was fun too. 0-60 measured at 4.17 seconds - not sure why they're understating this - seems odd!

I have not yet watched the Car Wow video, but the variance might be something to do with the way the timing is done, ie some tests "start" after the wheels have moved a bit? (Not sure of exact differences)
Last edited by Colonel Panic on Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1785636
I like the looks quite a bit more than the Model 3.

Both reviews rightly highlight the brilliantness of the Tesla charging infrastructure; a feature sadly not (yet) available to other mere mortal BEV operators.

@stevelup will be interesting to see how you like it in EDL.
#1785853
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:I like the looks quite a bit more than the Model 3.

Both reviews rightly highlight the brilliantness of the Tesla charging infrastructure; a feature sadly not (yet) available to other mere mortal BEV operators.

@stevelup will be interesting to see how you like it in EDL.


Tesla charge network is fully open to any other manufacture, they just have to ask Tesla for use and pay a fee for the upkeep of the network.

In reality though after all the stick the main Marques have given Tesla it’s unlikely they will ever go and ask for access but it is there for them.

I forget the name now but one of the new EV startups in the US has already applied to Tesla to use their charge network globally so they don’t need to build their own or wait for local governments or other private operators to build it out which to be fair has been a joke to date.
#1785858
God I hope not! Tesla owners have paid a premium for the best charging network so we shouldn’t share it. CCS chargers communicate with the car, the last time I used a 3rd party one it knew what the state of charge was, so no reason why they shouldn’t be able to implement the same sort of system as Tesla.
#1785949
Fellsteruk wrote:Tesla charge network is fully open to any other manufacture, they just have to ask Tesla for use and pay a fee for the upkeep of the network.


I don't see it happening. There is increasing congestion at Supercharger locations - especially in certain parts of the US. This would be made worse by allowing other people to use it, and would surely infuriate Tesla's existing client base. Imagine being a Tesla customer sitting there queuing behind a line of other manufacturers cars to use a SUC - that would be outrageous!

More importantly, the Supercharger network is now Tesla's only real USP. Why would they dilute this by sharing it?

Furthermore, there would be technical barriers to overcome - Superchargers have no user interface - the billing / payment side of things is dealt with by the car. This will be a non-trivial piece of integration work that might even need new hardware in some vehicles.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1785951
I disagree in part.

Sure it could cause congestion but anyone signing up to it would need to do the work to make it happen, it wouldn’t be a case of a manufacturer signing up and all cars ever made work.

They would have to integrate the payment solution but again Tesla have a solution and they are open to others joining, super chargers are “connected” so providing the car can be identified by the charger no reason they couldn’t charge and back bill, it’s not that difficult.

I’ve been lucky enough to never have much wait at Superchargers but if I was sat behind a bmw or a Tesla, providing they are contributing to the network it’s fair play and the congestion issues are being addressed with more sites and more chargers on each site.

I agree it’s doubtful it will happen because non of the big guys will never ask Tesla to allow them into the network but it is possible.

As for it’s only USP.... I disagree, Tesla has a number of USPS “still” the super charger network is one but with 90% of charging happening at home a charge network is only really valid on long trips, I’m yet to see OTA update for others that happen as often and so many new features, the UI and OTAs is another USP for me.
#1785958
Herbert Diess (IIRC) wrote an article on why the traditional manufacturers are struggling. I've tried to find it, but can't at the moment.

Essentially the problem is that the leaders in those companies are trying to retrofit software onto their current working practices, whereas the be players are more likely to start of with a software first approach.

His view is that the industry needs to change massively to keep up, Tesla had amassed terrabytes of data due to the instrumentation in their software, data the other manufacturers simply don't have.
#1785975
stevelup wrote:More importantly, the Supercharger network is now Tesla's only real USP. Why would they dilute this by sharing it?

Hmm, not sure that is true. You might not like them from an aesthetic POV, and your views on the word Autopilot are shared by many, but Tesla have a huge lead over other EV makers in loads of areas, from battery technology through motor efficiency to machine learning databases. Their supercharger network is just the icing on the cake.

But as with anything, competition is a Good Thing and the greater adoption of EVs will push them to continue to improve - as I am sure they will (& TBH need to).
#1785987
@Colonel Panic

i may be asking something that is difficult or impossible to answer, but at punter/consumer level, what are the main tech/operational differences between Polestar/Model 3 in EDL?

Main difference I took away from Tech from this reviews was the massive weight difference between the two. Even addressing this in a limited way would make the range difference vanish?
#1785992
There is a significant weight difference, but whilst the battery size & acceleration are similar, the Model 3 range is "better", so maybe that is where the weight difference manifests itself. For every day living, the P2's hatch will be a big plus for many, and its exterior aesthetics will suit others, as it is "less different" from a "normal" car. Even though the P2 is made from Chinesium, I would think build quality will be better than the M3 (not that mine suffers in that regard). The lack of a transmission tunnel in the rear of the Model 3 will be a bonus for some.

Outside of your question, but worth a mention, one of the things I love about the interior of of the Model 3 is that you really do feel like you are "getting in to the future". The lack of conventional handbrake, conventional gear stick, conventional key, conventional ignition switch/button, conventional "dashboard", not to mention the absence of a raft of sundry buttons, switches, knobs & vents.

EDITED TO ADD: Maybe the corpulence of the Polstar has its roots in the borrowed XC40 underpinnings? I can't see that it is due to added crash protection, as the Model 3 scores very highly in that regard.
Last edited by Colonel Panic on Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#1785994
There's not much real world consumption analysis been done yet on the PS2 so difficult to comment. The TM3 is clearly more efficient, there's no doubt about it. But it's 300kg lighter and has a much lower drag coefficient so that's hardly surprising. How much of the lower consumption comes from the battery / motor tech is anyone's guess. And a guess is all it could be. It would be evangelism to claim this as fact,

I don't want to get into a spat about this, but I must have a different way of understanding UNIQUE selling point. The SUC network IS Tesla's USP.

Everything else is either a subjective or objective comparison. The SUC network is unique to Tesla - it's the one thing that totally differentiates it from everyone else.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
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