For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By nallen
#1610082
PaulB wrote:200mile (real life) would probably do, but that's not easily available for a reasonable amount of money.


It's been rumoured that the 2019 Leaf will have a battery pack option to give >200 mile range, plus faster charging.
#1610083
Think this sums up the challenge.

One of our cars is a pre-DPF diesel and is still going strong after 14 years. We have had it since new and have just out in a new cam belt. Old tech cars (especially those that pre-date recent electronic gadgets) last well. Older diesels will be exempt from MOT changes and don’t have the problems of DPFs.

The car I’m looking to change is a petrol, it drives well and is still under 4 years old. If I get another car now it will obsolete within the early part of its life, but mass market EVs are still a couple of years away (Zoe, Leaf and i3 excluded).

It seems to be a really bad time to buy/lease a new car, but the manufacturers haven’t moved fast enough with new tech.

Next car will defiantly be an EV. Unlikely to buy it as I’ll look at TCO of some form of lease (taking fuel into account) to protect against battery life. The EV may also be the last car I buy or lease as I expect driverless and pay-per-mile to arrive a few years later.
#1610093
Interesting article here: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hy ... 38611.html

Can't help thinking about other disruptive innovations and their impact on legacy producers.

Car manufacturers are going to need to move fast and not be locked in by their legacy investments if they are to avoid a Kodak moment: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 92212.html

I don't remember many hybrid cameras when the market shifted from film to digital.

Kodak did successfully reinvent itself. Among other factors it had a lot of value in its patents and experitise and was able to refocus. Maybe that's the future for car manufacturers as a way of avoiding being overtaken by new entrants. They need to move quickly though.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1610129
Do the economics of electric vehicles stack up? The one thing that nobody seems to talk about is the cost of the battery. Renault charge £99 per month for the battery lease if you do 12,000 miles a year. That's roughly 10p per mile. The electricity cost seems to be about 3p per mile so a total of around 13p per mile. My 2012 Fiesta effortlessly does 60 mpg - about 9p per mile. Both are free of road fund charge.

It's not as if electric vehicles are pollution-free. They simply create pollution at the power station or at the solar panel manufacturing site or the wind turbine blade factory.
#1610148
VRB_20kt wrote:..

It's not as if electric vehicles are pollution-free. They simply create pollution at the power station or at the solar panel manufacturing site or the wind turbine blade factory.


Presumably the argument is that those sources of pollution are not where the pollution is worst for the health of the larger population, which is in urban areas with the heaviest road traffic.
#1610167
VRB_20kt wrote:Do the economics of electric vehicles stack up? The one thing that nobody seems to talk about is the cost of the battery. Renault charge £99 per month for the battery lease if you do 12,000 miles a year. That's roughly 10p per mile. The electricity cost seems to be about 3p per mile so a total of around 13p per mile. My 2012 Fiesta effortlessly does 60 mpg - about 9p per mile. Both are free of road fund charge.


I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, as you are effectively applying depreciation to the battery, but not to the engine in your Fiesta.

That said, the batteries clearly do have both a financial and environmental cost that need to be taken into account.

No idea what a replacement battery costs on my I3 would be, but as I have the car on a 3 year contract with a battery guarentee, that's not something I will have to find out.
#1610203
VRB_20kt wrote: My 2012 Fiesta effortlessly does 60 mpg - about 9p per mile.


And if you were on a pedal cycle it would be even less. and if you were walking, less still.

Worrying about fractional advantages or disadvantages in the cost per mile is really irrelevant unless you are clinging on to motoring by your financial fingernails.

EVs are just a far better motoring experience. Worth paying extra for. Meanwhile you drive a Fiesta :(

Rob P
#1610224
Could you have done Bournemouth to Maidstone without charging? How long do these things actually take to charge up? I know you had 11 minutes at the Fleet Services and topped up to 50 miles, but what did you arrive with that took 11 minutes to go to 50 miles?


I couldnt do Bournemouth Maidstone as the LEAF has a 90 mile range from full. When I got to Fleet after about 75mils it was showing 14 miles range left, so I plugged in for ten mins whilst I went to the Gents and that was enough to get me to my "official stop" the Nissan Garage in Alton. Here I topped up in about 25 mins to 80 miles which was enough to do the final leg to Maidstone 68 mile. - sorry I dont really understand your last sentence.
#1610233
Flying_john wrote:I couldnt do Bournemouth Maidstone as the LEAF has a 90 mile range from full. When I got to Fleet after about 75mils it was showing 14 miles range left, so I plugged in for ten mins whilst I went to the Gents and that was enough to get me to my "official stop" the Nissan Garage in Alton. Here I topped up in about 25 mins to 80 miles which was enough to do the final leg to Maidstone 68 mile. - sorry I dont really understand your last sentence.


Thinking about range anxiety...Out of interest, when you drive an electric car, does the way you drive it change the range? By which I mean the way you accelerate/brake/corner and "make progress".
For example in a petrol car you may get 40+mpg by cruising a motorway in top gear and bimbling about, but step it up and "have fun making progress" and that will possibly halve.

Regards, SD..
#1610239
With my plug-in hybrid then definitely how you drive affects the range. Smooth acceleration and regen braking will increase the range, cruising at higher speeds eats battery charge quicker than slower I think. Then again if you accelerate hard enough it'll just fire up the ICE regardless of whether it's in EV mode or not.

The newer models of EVs seem to be approaching 200miles range on a full charge now so are becoming much more practical. We just need the charging infrastructure to catch up! Fingers crossed this will happen in the next 2 ½ years so that when my leased Hyundai Ioniq goes back I can change to full EV without having the range anxiety!
#1610249
Thanks, John, for your answers. The last sentence was answered by you saying you had 14 miles left in the tank when you arrived at Fleet.

You said,
I couldnt do Bournemouth Maidstone as the LEAF has a 90 mile range from full.
Is this because of the particular model of Leaf you have? I read on their website of ranges 150-160 miles. Is that just marketing creativity versus reality or does your machine have a smaller battery?

I think the Leaf is actually not a bad looking machine and I'm quite tempted by it. I do like the idea of having the little rescue engine, like the BMW, but I think the designer let his dog do a bit too much scribbling when it was on the drawing board. That's a nice way of saying it's ugly :D
#1610255
Thanks all..... For our activities electric vehicles are nowhere near and I'm not sure I see the point of a hybrid, it's a bit like a diesel electric loco, the electric part is really little more than a transmission system AFAICS.
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