Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1708481
riverrock wrote:From what I hear, its a gimmick that you end up having to be more alert using that you are when driving normally...

It might work on an empty freeway but it doesn't work well enough anywhere else to be relied upon.

Agree 100% with the sentiments, but the video I linked to above it was far from an "empty" freeway!
#1708768
Colonel Panic wrote:
riverrock wrote:From what I hear, its a gimmick that you end up having to be more alert using that you are when driving normally...

It might work on an empty freeway but it doesn't work well enough anywhere else to be relied upon.

Agree 100% with the sentiments, but the video I linked to above it was far from an "empty" freeway!


Just to be clear, I'm not guessing or extrapolating from reviews, or expressing my own misconceptions or preconceptions.

I tried it myself, first hand on a round trip commute between J15 and J12 of the M4. Journeys were at my usual time - 0810 outbound, 1730 return. You cannot safely leave it unattended for any amount of time at all. It is extremely nerve wracking, and far less relaxing than just driving yourself.

Now I'm absolutely not a neophyte when it comes to this stuff - I rely extensively on the automation my current car has, and I'm certainly not a luddite. But I just didn't feel safe or comfortable, so what's the point?

It just didn't react to developing scenarios with any kind of 'humanity' for want of a better word. I had to positively intervene at least a dozen times on both legs of the trip including a couple of times that were positively dangerous.

For now, I'm happy to stick with a decent adaptive cruise control and manage the steering myself. It will have to get a damn site cleverer than it is now before I'll be happy with it.

I just don't think the Tesla has enough sensors. You look at the Waymo cars etc, and they have huge LIDAR units and all sorts of stuff. The Tesla just has pretty much the same suite of sensors that any current German car has. I can't see how it can perform miracles no matter how clever the software.
#1708843
Having just spent a week driving a friend's Tesla S around Europe, this seems particularly topical - I'm not in the market for a BEV for a fair while to come due to user profile, especially the unexpected trips from work, but am eyeing up a hybrid for next car or so (general profile is buy an older big engined car for pennies, fit LPG over a weekend, enjoy until MoTs become too much to justify fixing, rinse and repeat).

The general BEV experience on long trips, especially with pre-planned Supercharger halts: great, until fatigue hit and I missed a Supercharger turn on a Spanish motorway. There was enough spare capacity, but very similar to arriving somewhere 30 miles into the fuel warning light... The car itself gives more than enough information on expected range, but for now charging stops do require more planning and may not be easy to retrace steps to.

Driving: in many ways clearly the way forward, especially effective "engine braking" with regeneration all controlled by one pedal. It's been interesting transitioning back into a conventional car (automatic) - 300000+ miles of normal driving converted to electric within 300 miles, it's taking more time to go back to the norm.

Automation: as the trip progressed my use of the automation varied with experience. Yes, I wouldn't always position the car where/when it will do it itself - but that's the price of experience. Logical reasoning after each "learning event" showed that the car's programming probably followed the most sensible path, albeit it reacted before feeding any information to the soft squishy bit behind the wheel. "Autopilot" works perfectly nicely as long as you're prepared for it to occasionally turn off, perhaps mid-manoeuvre. Fortunately, work has me flying with autopilots that are monitored and never trusted, so this was a source of humour rather than annoyance.

Overall: perhaps the future. Definitely the future if every vehicle was so equipped, much like ADS-B in/out. Tricky bit is knowing that there will always be exceptions that can't be foreseen by limited range sensors... Perhaps future cars sharing a neural net will solve that one. The driving experience, absent most automation: absolutely, just so much simpler, albeit odd to hear a motor increasing speed and never changing up. Planning ahead: more work and at times more stress for now, albeit fantastic when it works. 20-30 mins refuelling with climate control on is about right for a good leg stretch/personal admin for most of my longer drives, get all paperwork and planning done before unplugging and setting off straight away. Cost: varies. Big initial outlay, much lower running. Horses for courses. For now, I'm sticking with a car that cost me 1 month's payment on a Tesla, costs more in fuel/tax, but is always there. Might be different in a few years.
kanga, johnm liked this
#1708863
What apps and cards to people use to charge on the hoof, and when abroad?

Thinking Motorways and big trunk roads.
#1708868
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:What apps and cards to people use to charge on the hoof, and when abroad?

Thinking Motorways and big trunk roads.

Zap-Map is popular. Lists all networks and charger types and availability updated by users

There are also apps specific to each network :thumleft:
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1708872
I've yet to use any, but have heard good things about ...

Zap-Map and PlugShare for finding chargers
ABetterRoutePlanner.com for route planning

There seem to be a myriad of charger networks, and more research of them is needed re: which to sign up with / download an app or get an RFID card for, but I do like the concept of the Plugsurfing app which in theory let you use almost any network (they have agreements with most), and then Plugshare charge the user.
#1708874
I don't understand why they don't all just use debit/credit cards to charge the user.

Another interesting factoid is that in the UK there are 18k charge points, in the Netherlands more than twice as many, 37k.
Colonel Panic, mmcp42 liked this
By johnm
#1708884
I am watching the emerging electric car market with great interest, but was very surprised recently to find that my neighbour's "hybrid SUV" does slightly less MPG than my petrol 2.5 litre Subaru Outback.....32.5 versus 33.2.
#1708893
Yep, some are terrible. Look at the Lexus numbers for example - they're laughably bad.

For many, many years the 'pinnacle' of hybrid tech the Toyota Pious was worse for MPG and emissions than many contemporary conventional cars - especially if you took it on the motorway or even reasonably fast A roads.

The problem is that some of these manufacturers have carp engine technology and are merely diluting the carpiness by hybridising them.

That's why the manufacturers who had good ICE engines to start with reap much higher rewards when they turn them into hybrids. My average consumption (and freely admits that I drive like lunatic) is 88mpg - which is remarkable.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
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