For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1866553
Paul_Sengupta wrote:Only while driving electricity isn't taxed as such. When the tax/road pricing comes in, running costs will be back to where they were with the addition of the extra capital cost.


I don't know, but I am guessing that a horse-drawn trap could be had for less than the price of a new Mini too.

You pay for the mobility you want/need.

Rob P
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#1866554
Today’s seven year olds will have a significantly different world and EV market to peruse in ten years time than today’s seventeen year olds currently do.

Hopefully it will be much for the better ecologically, financially, economically, politically, etc but who really knows. But if it’s not then they’ll probably be lucky if they can afford a bus fare never mind an EV.

In the meantime the rest of us should be doing our best to give them a better world…
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#1866555
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Rob P wrote:The costs are comparable.

The considerable savings in running cost are counterbalanced by the increased capital cost at purchase time.


Only while driving electricity isn't taxed as such. When the tax/road pricing comes in, running costs will be back to where they were with the addition of the extra capital cost.

Of course someone may have produced a cheap and powerful battery by then...

But I'm not holding my breath.

That's the best argument I've seen for being an early adopter!
My Tesla is now 2 years old, 18k miles. In that time:
Fuel £823 based on 17p/kWh (I have solar so much of that is actually zero)
VED £0
Insurance £350pa
Maintenance £15 (cabin air filter, self fitted).
#1866556
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Only while driving electricity isn't taxed as such. When the tax/road pricing comes in, running costs will be back to where they were with the addition of the extra capital cost.


At the risk of being a boring bean counter, it is worth remembering that price is not just determined by cost. And, even cost is a construct based on policies such as how you write off development expenditure, how you choose to allocate and apportion overheads etc etc.

It takes into account loss leaders, competitor prices, and many more factors. Importantly, demand and supply issues.

At the moment, ev buyers tend to be affluent. Supply is very limited, demand relative to the number of vehicles available is high. Development costs are high. It is a seller's wet dream.

We aren't in a cut throat market, but that will come when evs become mass market and ice is a thing of the past.

Purchase prices will inevitably fall at that point. Just as taxes will inevitably increase. At the moment, the market for evs is very artificial.
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User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866557
malcolmfrost wrote:That's the best argument I've seen for being an early adopter!


:thumright:

malcolmfrost wrote:My Tesla is now 2 years old, 18k miles. In that time:
Fuel £823 based on 17p/kWh (I have solar so much of that is actually zero)
VED £0


I've worked out that 18k miles would cost me in my diesel around £2700 in fuel, with an additional £700 in VED over two years, a not inconsiderable sum. Not entirely sure how to factor in maintenance as, apart from oil and filter changes, most of the work I've had done was to suspension components, a sort of mid-life refresh to make it drive like new again. I say mid-life, but at 14 years and 165k miles, I'd be happy if I make 28 years and 330k miles without it dissolving.

Depreciation over the past two years is about 50p.
#1866559
Paul_Sengupta wrote:I've worked out that 18k miles would cost me in my diesel around £2700 in fuel

:( £4,500 here (97 octane) :shock:
#1866560
Looking back over the years, the best decisions I've made in respect of vehicles (whether they be two wheel, four wheel, winged, groundcare) have been the ones where I let my heart rule my head. Thinking like an accountant has only ever resulted in boring choices.

Pick what you want and then ask yourself if you can afford it. And, if you can't afford it, ask what you can do so that you can.

The only time cost numbers should come into it is when explaining your choice to your partner. Then you need to get creative. Much the same as we do with flying costs. :wink:
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#1866565
Rob P wrote:
Paul_Sengupta wrote:I've worked out that 18k miles would cost me in my diesel around £2700 in fuel

:( £4,500 here (97 octane) :shock:

Take some solace from the fact that @Paul_Sengupta is practicing some of @Paultheparaglider's creative accountancy in that he is ignoring the cost of his other cars. :wink:

I'm quite sure, like me, you wouldn't swap motoring costs with @Paul_Sengupta? :D

Paultheparaglider wrote:Looking back over the years, the best decisions I've made in respect of vehicles (whether they be two wheel, four wheel, winged, groundcare) have been the ones where I let my heart rule my head. Thinking like an accountant has only ever resulted in boring choices.

I am frequently bewildered by the obsession some have on always getting the cheapest. Interestingly, I note, it os often those most vocal about govt procurement policies. :lol:
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866567
Rob P wrote:
Paul_Sengupta wrote:I've worked out that 18k miles would cost me in my diesel around £2700 in fuel

:( £4,500 here (97 octane) :shock:


I would guess you don't do so many miles these days as in the past, justifying your trading in the diesel like mine for your nutter version...
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866569
Miscellaneous wrote:@Paul_Sengupta is practicing some of @Paultheparaglider's creative accountancy in that he is ignoring the cost of his other cars. :wink:


Well, two of my five are currently off the road so not costing much on an on-going basis. Let's see how much the restoration costs are. ;-)

Two of the five were paid for by my dad, and I've just had to tax and insure them since he died. Fuel costs are roughly the same whichever one I drive! However depreciation on the newer ones would be a factor.

Miscellaneous wrote:[I'm quite sure, like me, you wouldn't swap motoring costs with @Paul_Sengupta? :D


I think Rob has three, don't you Rob?

Miscellaneous wrote:I am frequently bewildered by the obsession some have on always getting the cheapest. :lol:


For many of the people around me in South Wales, it's the only way they can get to run a car. I got some new tyres for a couple of the cars last week, and while there were a few "premium" tyres at the tyre place, the vast majority were "budget".

Mind you, I've used Hankook on the MR2 when they were a budget make. People have since cottoned on to the fact they're good and they are now a premium make, costing the same as Dunlop and Goodyear.
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866582
Miscellaneous wrote:So meanwhile that's 3 x insurance and 3 times VED? :shock:


Yes. Want to buy a Yaris? :D

Miscellaneous wrote:I certainly couldn't accuse you penny pinching. :wink:


Mind you, all the car insurances put together don't reach the level of my aeroplane insurance.

And don't talk to me about the rest of the costs of Bulldog ownership! :clown:
#1866588
Bill McCarthy wrote:I can see that the only time people will go EV is when car manufacturers declare that the production costs of ICE are higher, thereby making them less desirable, and that can’t be far away.

Or when petrol station owners realise they make a much better margin selling electricity and convert their stations!
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