For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1872219
End of 2024 I'm told they are planning to move to the Renault 5. It has consistently been the best selling EV in Europe https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... selling-ev .

I enjoy my ZE40 R110. Its a great city car, but still comfy for regular 100 mile round trips. They don't have all the bells and whistles of cars in higher price brackets and do look for deals - Renault seem to always have various ones running (trade in a banger for £5k off, etc, although you can probably negotiate the same discount without the trade in). Some of the sites which calculate depreciation seem to not realise that there is a big different between RRP and what people pay, so it looks like depreciation is terrible in year one...

Anything particular you'd like to know about them @PeteSpencer ?
Battery degradation is slightly better than competition, using its air-con during charging to reduce wear. It uses a heat pump so more efficient internal heating, although doesn't blast heat. Depending on model, it has the fastest AC charging available on the market (reusing its motor as a transformer) although doesn't have the fastest DC charging. It isn't rated for towing, so questionable legality in fitting a tow bar (ones for other Renault models fit perfectly). Make sure you're comfy when sitting in one, as seats don't move in all the ways you would expect in a modern car. They are surprisingly high - driving position is more SUV than small car.
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#1872246
PeteSpencer wrote:Trouble is ATM it's a stubborn flat refusal: 'I'm not buying an electric car'

I have some sympathy with Peter. I'd really like one of our cars to be an EV but Mrs P won't even consider this until someone launches an (affordable) roadster.

Rob P
#1872250
Rob P wrote:
PeteSpencer wrote:Trouble is ATM it's a stubborn flat refusal: 'I'm not buying an electric car'

I have some sympathy with Peter. I'd really like one of our cars to be an EV but Mrs P won't even consider this until someone launches an (affordable) roadster.

Rob P


Umm... EV roadster launched ,

Image

*gets coat*
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By MachFlyer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1872519
Paul_Sengupta wrote:It's barking with today's technology that a 12V battery in an EV can leave it stranded. Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to have some sort of button to press or switch to turn to get power from the main battery to power up the system?


I’ve got a Kia Niro Hybrid. The 12v battery has a very small capacity and in fact I run it down listening to the radio whilst waiting for my son once. If it does run flat then there is a button you can press on dashboard that I presume takes some power from main battery to “start” the car.
#1872570
MachFlyer wrote:... that I presume takes some power from main battery to “start” the car.


Not quite.

When the 12 volt battery gets too low while parked, a relay opens to stop the voltage from continuing to fall to prevent damage.

The battery reset button closes this relay restoring voltage to the 12 volt system. When this happens, voltage is restored to the 12 volt systems, allowing you to turn the car on - which you are supposed to do after such an event and leave on for 30 minutes (you don't have to actually drive the car) to recharge the 12 volt battery


Clever thinking

Rob P
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1872575
Am I right in thinking that the 12V battery is charged by 'the big un' in EVs as a matter of course.

Have to admit that I haven't looked under the bonnet of either of the two EVs I have driven so far but don't imagine there is a generator being whizzed around via a belt (from wherever) to charge the 12V job.
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By stevelup
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1872580
Yep, there's an inverter which drops the HV down to 14 ish to charge the main battery.

A lot of car manufacturers seem to struggle with the logic of how to implement this. I personally find this a bit baffling as to me it's -really- simple.

IF 12V BATTERY < 12.5V AND HVDC BATTERY > 386V* THEN inverter = ON
IF 12V BATTERY >= 12.6V THEN inverter = OFF

Maybe you could add a bit more hysteresis - my algorithm there's unnecessarily aggressive, but you get the point.

Loads of manufacturers seem to cock this up. The original version of the software in my car only charged the 12V system whilst you were driving. Absolute total and utter LOLs at that and clear that this car was developed by a company used to making ICE vehicles. I mean, what on earth were they thinking...

This led to the 12V battery running down whilst parked... It didn't even charge the 12V battery when the car itself was being charged...

They very quickly changed it to that the 12V could be topped up at any time as and when necessary.

* or whatever the minimum safe voltage for that battery is.
#1872585
skydriller wrote:
stevelup wrote: I mean, what on earth were they thinking...


Well, Im wondering why you even need a 12V battery at all... Its battery driven car FFS...


Safer to isolate dozens of kWh in the motive battery when it’s not in use. The 12v operates relays to connect/disconnect the motive battery as required.
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By stevelup
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1872595
skydriller wrote:Well, Im wondering why you even need a 12V battery at all... Its battery driven car FFS...


Because something has to monitor the safety of the 400/800V HVDC system and be able to isolate it. You can't have 800V at hundreds of amps permanently connected to other components of the car.

The surprising thing is not that there's a 12V battery, it's that until now, every manufacturer was still using lead-acid batteries for this role. Now that -is- bonkers.

This is gradually shifting - Tesla are moving to more modern tech for the ELV stuff now, and I'm sure others will follow.
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