[riverrock]

Zoe's battery management system means there is no danger to the batteries in charging to full every time (I know that isn't the case with other cars, where you're recommend to only top up to full when the range is needed).
In many cars, as batteries reach capacity, the charging power will be reduced to protect the batteries. Balancing tends to happen in the last 1 or 2 % of charging. If you don't need full capacity, there is probably no need to balance, so stop the charge at 98%. If you let it go to 100% each time, balancing should take almost no time. If you only go to 100% a few times a year, balancing could take a considerable amount of time. Each car has different "tailing off" thresholds and it may be based on other factors, such as how warm the batteries are getting, so there is no hard and fast rule for when to stop charging for max-efficiency. It will matter more to different cars than others.

[Colonel Panic]

Thanks for that. Putting the question slightly differently ...

If it is recommended to normally charge a battery to 80 or 90%, and this is selected via onboard software, would the system do any of this balancing as it approached 80 or 90%, or would it just end the charge cycle? Does the balancing process happen towards the end of any selected limit, or only when the limit is set to 100%?

Or maybe the answer is just "it depends on the car"

[riverrock]

"it depends on the car"

However all of the examples I've seen, its only as you reach 100%.

There is an argument that if you never do balancing, some batteries could get more worn than others. There is logic to that, but no real proof, and the differences between batteries are likely to be pretty low unless there was poor design within the infrastructure.

[Jim Jones]

Looks like another reason to defer buying a BEV. I’ll wait till it’s settled down to a sensible standard and infrastructure

What is it about the current standards and infrastructure would one be wanting to avoid by waiting?

.

Different providers of charge points, each requiring you sign up to their scheme
Different shaped plugs/ sockets
Insufficient infrastructure to support long journeys
( I used the York park and ride today. It has 6 charging bays. ‘Good’, I thought, then realised just 6 cars would occupy them until the owners returned from whatever they were doing in York).
High initial cost compared to equivalent ICE cars.

Memories of Betamax , laser disc, floppy discs,.

My next car will be something like a 2 year-old petrol Golf, to be changed in 3 to 5 years for a BEV if they’ve got it sorted.

[Miscellaneous]

What is it about the current standards and infrastructure would one be wanting to avoid by waiting?

@Colonel Panic did you watch the video I posted a few days back? In particular the second speaker from around 8.30 talks about some of the challenges, including not very well known challenges, of developing a suitable infrastructure.

viewtopic.php?p=1712978#p1712978

[riverrock]

Different providers of charge points, each requiring you sign up to their scheme

Agreed. Note that Tesla have locked theirs down to their own brand of car. I expect this will change in time - there is government pressure and all of the systems deployed (I believe) are compatible with contactless credit cards (etc) - however they haven't linked them directly to cards as yet.
Almost all points in Scotland (other than Ikea and motorway service stations ) are on the same system (ChargePoint Scotland) - so its quite regionalised.

Different shaped plugs/ sockets

All newer vehicles on the market now can deal with a Type 2 socket - its the European standard and can handle up to 42kW AC and is fairly future proof. Its also the connection put into almost all homes.

However rapid DC gets a bit more involved. The European standard is CCS (Type 2 with 2 extra pins) and most manufacturers are heading in that direction, although its a mixed bag. Tesla have sockets that look like Type 2 (and the car side will plug into type 2) but the charge points are very slightly modified to take higher DC voltage current, and the software will refuse to "talk" to a non-tesla. The Japanese CHAdeMO were the original high speed DC connection but are slowly going away in Europe, but likely to be around for some time. So this is getting there.

Insufficient infrastructure to support long journeys

Have a look at Zap-Map. There is now infrastructure all over the country, including at motorway service stations. They are currently rarely occupied but underlying infrastructure is being put in place so more can be rolled out when needed. It is getting there.

( I used the York park and ride today. It has 6 charging bays. ‘Good’, I thought, then realised just 6 cars would occupy them until the owners returned from whatever they were doing in York).

but were they full when you look at them? As more people get the cars, the bays will get rolled out. When I was in Norway recently, the car park of the business I was working with had multiple charging points available to employees. In the UK businesses can get grants to put the points in.

High initial cost compared to equivalent ICE cars.

[/quote]
I worked out my Zoe would pay for its higher cost, vs equivalent Renault Clio, in 3 years with lower fuel bills, then entirely pay for itself (replacing previous car) in 7. Prices will also come down as production steps up. There is actually a surplus of some battery raw materials, as there was over production as some over predicted the increase in batteries required.

[Colonel Panic]

Thanks Misc, I'd missed that. Interesting stuff.

[Jim Jones]

Interesting stuff, thanks, but it’s all about to happen.

My cars are funded from my taxed income, no recoup possible. If the BIK was more encouraging they could be trailblazers for the rest of us.....

I find the technology appealing and want to acquire the benefits of BEV but I don’t feel able at the moment.

(With Park and Ride example, none of the bays were occupied, but I’d hate to be the 7th BEV to arrive to find all 6 bays are full, probably for the day. The other potential BEV owners may feel they don’t want to be number 7 either. I guess a planned diversion-type strategy may be required)

[Paul_Sengupta]

When I was in Norway recently, the car park of the business I was working with had multiple charging points available to employees.

In Sweden, a whole row of the (outside) car park all had electrical sockets years ago. But these were for the engine pre-heaters. I don't know how much current they can supply but they could certainly be ahead of the game!

[johny5]

It is just an App which shows the charging point locations but will not provide you the access to charging.

[malcolmfrost]

I picked up my 3 yesterday so had a go at my local Supercharger. ( Which happens to be the same distance as my nearest supermarket petrol). Using CCS2. It started at 50% and was charging at a rate of 265mi/hr. after 10 min it was down to 200mi/hr as it reached 70% or so. I brought the car home and put it on a 13A socket/extension lead and set it to 90%. It charged at 10mi/hr with 4:25 to finish. Car was charged to 90% this morning with 215 miles range.

[Melanie Moxon]

The new Z.E50 Zoe that has just been announced with the 52kw/h battery will, I think, be a turning point for many people that currently lease small cars. With a real world range reported to be over 200 miles, and modest performance eliminating the anxiety over the odd long journey, the longevity of the batteries for used buys...who knows.

The issue of chargers reared its head locally recently with a supermarket turning them off because of constant complaints from BEV owners stating that a) they either didn't work or b) the spaces were being used as regular parking spaces. Also the last time I went to Ikea, which has a few charge slots available (good) they were all taken up by people with PHEVs, which though they are entitled to use would have left anybody arriving needing a charge in a BEV marooned until those that can use an ICE engine vacated the slots, I think the chargers should be restricted to BEV only until they are far more common place, I am sure that could be done using a software switch (i.e. I imagine the charger is fairly smart and knows what it is talking to) in the charger.

Unfortunately on a £25k the (otr price) the lease cost alone of a Zoe is still going to be above the price of running my 1.6 Mini, realistically I think until I can buy a BEV for <£5K with a 200mile real world range (used obviously) I am going to be stuck with an ICE car.

[Bill McCarthy]

If I had a BEV and found a space occupied by a ICE car I’d leave a note on the windscreen with the words - “You stupid inconsiderate bastar d , this space is for EVs only !!”

[Rob P]

It has just been brought to my attention that it's now exactly seven years since we did the dealer roadshow, introducing the then new Leaf to the salespeople across England and Scotland.

It's longer than I thought

Rob P

[Colonel Panic]

How does Nissan keep the training / information flow going to dealers now? Or has the topic reached a tipping point where they don't need any more priming?