For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1602599
Hmm:
Some interesting thoughts>

As a pensioner in a similar situation I hope I would shout my head off, hit the burglar/panic alarm button and use whatever weapon available (fire extinguisher, umbrella, Maglite torch) if 1) and 2) didn't trigger an instant retreat.

Knife? Screwdriver? Well, maybe...

Peter
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By Genghis the Engineer
#1602604
It will be very interesting to see where this goes.

As a martial artist, and an instructor, unsurprisingly I take a lot of interest in the law about self defence. My understanding here would indeed be that this chap is entirely in the right - on the basis of the very limited information we have of course.

At the same time, I'm aware that it's not the job of the police to judge, that is the job of the courts. Sometimes the courts do need to be handed a case to make a decision about.

But, in this instance, as has already been said, the man is elderly, and a protracted trial - even if he wins it, as I imagine he probably should - could damage him badly.


An obvious question - the suggestion is murder, not manslaughter. The former assumes a high degree of pre-meditation, as I understand it. That suggests that there may be something very significant to this case that's not being publicly stated yet.

G
By morticiaskeeper
#1602605
As far as I'm concerned, enter my property and the gloves come off.

Remove the threat seems to be the appropriate action, I do hope I would have the willpower to leave it at that, but can't be sure.

As with most things these day, I do not trust the media to tell me the whole truth without putting their own angle on things.
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By romille
#1602607
morticiaskeeper wrote:
Remove the threat seems to be the appropriate action, I do hope I would have the willpower to leave it at that, but can't be sure.

That is the problem once your fight to survive instinct kicks would you be able to reasonably judge when you had done enough to eliminate the threat.
User avatar
By Miscellaneous
#1602614
PeteSpencer wrote:...and use whatever weapon available (fire extinguisher, umbrella, Maglite torch) if 1) and 2) didn't trigger an instant retreat.

Knife? Screwdriver? Well, maybe...

I don't buy many would be so composed, first thing to come to hand, including throwing a bog roll if you happened to be...well you know!

To me the law kinda assumes the victim will always be able to eliminate the threat without harm in a 'clean' and efficient manner…of course life ain't like that.
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By OCB
#1602617
romille wrote:
morticiaskeeper wrote:
Remove the threat seems to be the appropriate action, I do hope I would have the willpower to leave it at that, but can't be sure.

That is the problem once your fight to survive instinct kicks would you be able to reasonably judge when you had done enough to eliminate the threat.


Certainly not a Judge. There in lies the whole problem with "reasonable force".

A bit like Ghengis - I've been involved in martial arts for more than 30 years, and followed such cases with interest. I also did a degree in Psychology, and I can tell you that the "fight, flight,freeze" part of your brain is tucked way down in the lizard part; and the rational part that can make "reasonable" decisions barely gets a look-in when it's a life-threatening situation.

I've often pondered about "familiarisation" courses for Judges/Lawyers etc where highly trained specialists (e.g ex-military or whatever) put them through very realistic simulations of real attack scenarios, and see how they fare.
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By OCB
#1602618
...oh, and for those posting what they'd do...remember the internet last a long time. If something did happen, your willingness to go past "reasonable" could well come back to bite you....just sayin' ....
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By Flintstone
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1602622
I would do absolutely nothing yer 'onner except offer them all my worldly goods and a cup of tea. If they happened to become impaled on something sharp or concussed on a blunt instrument in their haste to leave I would reach for my First Aid kit. Possibly slowly, I'm not as nifty on my pins as I used to be.

I also get a bit confused as it's been four months since my First Aid refresher. I think though it's two compressions to two breaths, elevate my leg and apply a cold compress to their face. Or something.

Why did I come upstairs?



(That should cover me in the event of an appearance at the Old Bailey).
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By Dodo
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1602632
Some 30 years ago back when I was a GP, I was once given the wrong address for a home visit to a frail old lady. There was no answer to my ring at the door so I let myself in the back door which was unlocked, wandered through the house and then went upstairs looking for my patient. After a while I realised that there was no-one home so I rang my surgery to find out if the patient had been taken to hospital.

I used the phone in the house (this was pre mobile phone days) no doubt leaving my fingerprints all over it. At that stage I was given the right address and beat a hasty retreat. I left a note on headed paper apologising to the residents. I heard no more about it.

It is a good thing that for me there was no-one at home to object. In certain jurisdictions I guess I would have been shot first and questioned after.
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By Miscellaneous
#1602635
Dodo wrote:It is a good thing that for me there was no-one at home to object. In certain jurisdictions I guess I would have been shot first and questioned after.

I very much doubt a GP entering a property on a house call is likely to be mistaken for a couple of scrotes intent in causing harm. However, I do like the story. :D
By JoeC
#1602639
Why? Do Doctors on house calls have special protection from someone thinking the worst or acting out of fear?

The way that some talk of 'anyone entering my house without permission gets it" makes me think that professional qualifications are the last thing a householder would be asking about before administering a good kicking.
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By Flintstone
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1602643
Miscellaneous wrote:I very much doubt a GP entering a property on a house call is likely to be mistaken for a couple of scrotes intent in causing harm.




Have you met my GP?
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