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By skydriller
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#1611374
Miscellaneous wrote:There's much to be said for the Scottish system in this respect, although it can be difficult in another way in a buoyant market.



If by this you mean the old chestnut that the scots think Guzumping/Gazundering etc. doesnt happen up there in "sunny" Scotland, then you are VERY MUCH mistaken - additionally, as the whole thing is handled by solicitors, and they are all mates, you cant do anything about it when it happens - Bunch of shysters the lot of them :furious: :furious:

I speak from experience, unfortunately.

Regards, SD..
#1611382
I quite like the New Zealand way. You submit a signed offer on a legally binding contract. If the seller countersigns to accept, you have a contract. If either party subsequently drops out they have to pay the other party 10% of the purchase price. I seem to recall the offer only remains valid for a certain fairly short fixed term.

It can be conditional eg subject to getting a mortgage, but even then the seller doesn't have to countersign if they don't like the conditions.

The seller can sign to accept the offer subject to a higher price which then binds the seller if the purchaser subsequently signs to accept the revised price.
By avtur3
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#1611385
The problem we've encountered is around the uncertainty arising from survey results.

If I was king there would be a universally accredited survey system which would provide survey results that would be acceptable to all parties involved in the transaction. The survey would be commissioned by the seller (at their expense) before the house was listed for sale and the survey report would be available to anyone interested in purchasing as well as lenders. This would allow meaningful informed negotiation to take place at the time of bidding. None of this bidding then waiting weeks, or months, for surveys to be completed only to result in renegotiation which can lead to deals falling apart.
#1611398
skydriller wrote:If by this you mean the old chestnut that the scots think Guzumping/Gazundering etc. doesnt happen up there in "sunny" Scotland, then you are VERY MUCH mistaken - additionally, as the whole thing is handled by solicitors, and they are all mates, you cant do anything about it when it happens - Bunch of shysters the lot of them :furious: :furious:

I do and I'm not.

skydriller wrote:I speak from experience, unfortunately.
[/quote]
I seem to recall your experience was not within the law/system. The system does not allow for what happened to you, therefore anything goes when folks operate outwith it and the system itself cannot be blamed.

I quite like the New Zealand way. You submit a signed offer on a legally binding contract. If the seller countersigns to accept, you have a contract.

That part is as Scotland…the offer is never accepted as is though.
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#1611408
Paul, there's nothing stipulating how it is done. Sealed bids are only really submitted when a closing date for offers is set and that is generally a consequence of there being more than one interested party (that's the difficulty I referred to in a buoyant market).

We viewed this house on the Wed. Made verbal offer on Thurs. rejected same day , revised offer accepted verbally next day, formal offer submitted by solicitor on the Monday.

The buyer of the house we sold made a verbal offer when viewing, we shook hands and the formalities followed.
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By skydriller
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#1611410
Paultheparaglider wrote:I quite like the New Zealand way. You submit a signed offer on a legally binding contract. If the seller countersigns to accept, you have a contract. If either party subsequently drops out they have to pay the other party 10% of the purchase price. I seem to recall the offer only remains valid for a certain fairly short fixed term.


This is the way it works in France. It makes buying houses alot more expensive, but there is no ambiguity involved - when buyer/seller signs with the estate agent you are locked in. The solicitor does the legal work for the government and is removed from that part of the contract.

Misc - It was a long time ago, details in my mind are now sketchy, and Im chilled about the whole thing now. I do know I spoke about my experiences on here before many years ago when I was less relaxed about it. My only memory to this date is "it didnt work as it was supposed to, it cost me time, money, effort & heartache, when I wanted redress I couldnt get it".

You learn from life's experiences and occasionally when this pops up in conversation (as now), I say the proverbial "Bollox - shysters!!". Forgive me...

Regards, SD..
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#1611412
Nine out of ten properties in NZ are now sold by auction.
When a property comes on the market up here the price increases by 50% if someone from south of the border has an interest !
#1611467
avtur3 wrote:If I was king there would be a universally accredited survey system which would provide survey results that would be acceptable to all parties involved in the transaction. The survey would be commissioned by the seller (at their expense) before the house was listed for sale and the survey report would be available to anyone interested in purchasing as well as lenders.

Again this is how it is north of the border, it's known as a Home Report, from memory it's only valid for 3 months and then the seller has to have another done. Of course the buyer is at liberty to have his own survey done.

SD wrote:You learn from life's experiences and occasionally when this pops up in conversation (as now), I say the proverbial "Bollox - shysters!!". Forgive me...

I have no doubt you had a bad experience at the hands of shysters, I just don't think it is a reflection on our system and renders our system bollox. Your anger is understandable. Nothing to be forgiven for.
By riverrock
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#1611481
As misc says, the system is better up here. Gazzumping rarely happens (I don't know of anyone it happened to). Offers are contracts, and are normally agreed well before moving date.

There are ways round though. It is is expensive to enforce contracts (civil matter, so you have to go to court prove / ask for damages) and lawyers can weedle their way with things like adding minor bits they know you aren't happy with, and stipulating "this is only good up till x date" which sounds fine but when they put the date 1 day after the date they sent it and it all had to go through your solicitor first...

My brother, buying in London was gazzumed twice, then he pulled out of another sale not long before moving date as his wife changed her mind.

In buying my current house, sellers were getting divorced (we only discovered this later) and they were out to get at each other. We talked to wife at viewing who verbally accepted offer, and told us various things were included. He dissagreed... that caused various offers / contracts going backwards and forwards trying to reach compromise.
He then decided to change the move date as he wanted one last Christmas at "home" with kids...
All well in the end, and caused stress at the time, but our experience was a lot better than my brother's!
By avtur3
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#1613444
OP here, quick recap, selling two properties to by one.

Property one on the market early last September, property two on market early January.

Property two has finally completed today, money in the bank at 11.30am, result!

Property one, contract exchange is imminent with completion planned for 14th June.

With both properties getting buyers engaged has not been the problem, but becoming involved in 'chains' has been a nightmare. Its not just the financial status of the buyer that's important, but how they achieve that position. Our buyer is effectively a cash buyer, his equity from sale more than covers his purchase of our house, in fact the same is true for his buyer also; but the buyer before that is mortgage dependent and therefor has strong influence on the chain.

Gazumping has certainly not been a problem, I know its not pleasant as a buyer but as a vendor of 2 properties it would have been nice to be fending off the offers. Given my experience I wonder if gazumped offers are always successfully followed through.

Roll on 14th June when my 62 years residence of Stockport draws to a close and I become a southerner
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By rikur_
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#1613448
15 years ago we were buying a house from a guy that really hated chains.
His solution, we buy his house, he buys our house (in addition to the one he was moving to) ... then, he then sold our original house.
Whilst it created double stamp duty (his problem), he was able to spend a couple of £k making it smart, and sell it at a premium of 'no chain', by my maths he was at least £5k up in the end.
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By Paul_Sengupta
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#1613451
avtur3 wrote:Roll on 14th June when my 62 years residence of Stockport draws to a close and I become a southerner


Just a warning, you get a full pint down south without a big head on it. You may also find the beer is stronger.
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#1613453
rikur_ wrote:15 years ago we were buying a house from a guy that really hated chains.
His solution, we buy his house, he buys our house (in addition to the one he was moving to) ... then, he then sold our original house.
Whilst it created double stamp duty (his problem), he was able to spend a couple of £k making it smart, and sell it at a premium of 'no chain', by my maths he was at least £5k up in the end.

I like that idea. :thumleft:
Bit more difficult now due to the extra 3% on second properties, of course. :(
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By rikur_
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#1613530
Miscellaneous wrote:
rikur_ wrote:15 years ago we were buying a house from a guy that really hated chains.
His solution, we buy his house, he buys our house (in addition to the one he was moving to) ... then, he then sold our original house.
Whilst it created double stamp duty (his problem), he was able to spend a couple of £k making it smart, and sell it at a premium of 'no chain', by my maths he was at least £5k up in the end.

I like that idea. :thumleft:
Bit more difficult now due to the extra 3% on second properties, of course. :(

I reckon we probably accepted £5k less than we would have done because of the 'no chain' offer .... hard to judge, but probably got £5k - £10k above market when he sold it because it had no chain ... so he perhaps made 4% on the transaction - at the time, sufficient headroom for the sub-£250k band. As you say the combination of most properties being +£250k, and second home duty, I think kills the concept nowadays.... unless I'm under-estimating the discount/premium that people are willing to accept for no chain. I seem to recall that there are companies out there that will buy properties at 10% below market to offer a 'no chain' service, but the very low volumes suggest that most people don't put a 10% premium on not having a chain.