For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
#1590697
If video footage conclusively proves these two are guilty of such crimes, in the same way eye witness and video footage proves Lee Rigbys killers, then drawn out and expensive trials are not justified.

And there lies the problem, this is now all in the public domain. Had their capture been kept quiet, their knowledge could have been extracted and then they could have disappeared.

No cost, no media frenzy, no martyrdom, and no crying snowflakes.
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By Flintstone
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590739
It never ceases to amaze me that people like this, quite happy to terrorise and murder innocents for as long as they have the upper hand, suddenly want their ooman rights when cornered. It just shows them to be the snivelling cowards we knew them to be in the first place.

Nor do I accept the argument that we lessen ourselves by dealing with them in the same way they have treated others. They set the rules, let them be judged according to them.
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#1590757
Flintstone wrote:It never ceases to amaze me that people like this, quite happy to terrorise and murder innocents for as long as they have the upper hand, suddenly want their ooman rights when cornered. It just shows them to be the snivelling cowards we knew them to be in the first place.

Nor do I accept the argument that we lessen ourselves by dealing with them in the same way they have treated others. They set the rules, let them be judged according to them.



I don't want to live by their rules, that’s the point. Elsewise we become them.

And as I understand it they’ve not asked for their rights, they don’t need to ask as, by our rules, they have them. The rights are inalienable you see.
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By Flintstone
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590764
Jim Jones wrote:
Flintstone wrote:It never ceases to amaze me that people like this, quite happy to terrorise and murder innocents for as long as they have the upper hand, suddenly want their ooman rights when cornered. It just shows them to be the snivelling cowards we knew them to be in the first place.

Nor do I accept the argument that we lessen ourselves by dealing with them in the same way they have treated others. They set the rules, let them be judged according to them.



I don't want to live by their rules, that’s the point. Elsewise we become them.

And as I understand it they’ve not asked for their rights, they don’t need to ask as, by our rules, they have them. The rights are inalienable you see.



Then for as long as we allow them their standards when they do bad things and ours when they are caught people like them will continue to do bad things.

If people act in a civilised fashion they can expect the same in return. Until then, **** ‘em.
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#1590787
We had a bloomin vermin infestation in the shed. Horrible little devils. They could have stayed in the shed quite happily if they’d not tried to destroy everything.

I set traps and killed the vermin.

This raises a few questions.

a) should I be calling mice “vermin”
b) should I be killing them.
c) do these actions turn me into a mouse?

the biggest one,

Should I change my behaviour while they continue to do what they want. Should I buy metal boxes to keep everything in so they cannot get to it?
Maybe stop storing stuff in the shed?

I have a massive issue with this generally, the **** in life act exactly as they want, because normal decent people aren’t allowed to challenge them. It is the normal decent people who must change their behaviour.
#1590790
I can’t really continue in this thread. I think to be called human and have human rights, you have to act like a human. Sapient isn’t a physical form.

(There are excellent philosophical discussions to be had about aliens and sapient, as there are grey areas)

If others defend these actions as being those of a human, then that’s a difference of opinion that cannot be resolved. We cannot see each others positions at all. I cannot view these people as human, they cannot view them as vermin. I suppose we’ll just have to live with them in our society.

I’ve got about another 30 years here hopefully, I’m caring less and less about what’s right and wrong and what it will look like when I’m gone. I’m joining the majority.
#1590791
if you have placed the shed on a know mouse breeding location, I might siide with the mouses right to occupy.

However, if the mice have been drawn to that location because of the comfort of the shed, thats a different matter. That said, a mouses preferred option is to stay or run away from you, he won't walk into your house and knaw your head off out of spite.

Maybe a mouse has a higher moral code than a beatle?
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By nallen
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590800
Cessna57 wrote:If others defend these actions as being those of a human, then that’s a difference of opinion that cannot be resolved. We cannot see each others positions at all. I cannot view these people as human, they cannot view them as vermin.


Of course these are the actions of humans. Take a step back in time and see what "we" did in the name of justice, religion, politics -- public mutilations, burnings (oh yes, and the odd genocide or two). Would you say that we were not human then, but are now? If so, at what point did we become "human".
#1590834
nallen wrote:
Cessna57 wrote:If others defend these actions as being those of a human, then that’s a difference of opinion that cannot be resolved. We cannot see each others positions at all. I cannot view these people as human, they cannot view them as vermin.


Of course these are the actions of humans. Take a step back in time and see what "we" did in the name of justice, religion, politics -- public mutilations, burnings (oh yes, and the odd genocide or two). Would you say that we were not human then, but are now? If so, at what point did we become "human".


Oh, I don’t consider those things acceptable either you see. I think they’re also the acts of savages and should be condemned.

Yes, those are not humane ways to act, I wouldn’t want to be in a tribe with those people. (That’s what it boils down to)

I suppose the point I am getting at is that I don’t consider being “human shaped” qualifies you to have “human rights”, obviously some think that anyone “human shaped” gets those rights. It’s a fundamental difference.

It still comes down to “what is it to be human”. Saying “acting like that IS human, and we should not just swat these people the way we would kill a cockroach” is one point of view.

My point of view is that once you start acting like that you’ve decided you are a cockroach, and usually we exterminate cockroaches rather than put them in a little cockroach prison and feed them.

I can understand the precariousness of my view, the rules of society are abstract. May I recommend Plato’s Republic to the forum. It really *really* makes you think.

Right and Wrong are human concepts for instance, they’re not universal. Justice is another made up abstract concept.